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PSW on ACCA Fundamental Papers

Archived UK Tier 1 (Post-Study Work) points system forum. This route no longer exists.

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe

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PaperPusher
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Location: London

Post by PaperPusher » Wed May 01, 2013 12:50 pm

affiliate wrote:
PaperPusher wrote:It was counsel for the ACCA students who sought to rely on the guidance.
Would you please take a second to read my posts carefully?

I have already said this could be a secret weapon to be used in court of appeal OR a clever way to drag it to the Supreme Court to make more money for the lawyers...

affiliate Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:30 pm wrote:Guys i think still there is lots of hope.
1. Judgement relies on policy guidance, which is an invalid document.
2. That makes the case all about defining the term UK RECOGNISED DEGREE in a fair manner.

This must have been kept either as a secret weapon for appeal or as a weapon to drag it into Supreme Court to make more money for the lawyers, I don't know.
Barristers are not allowed to have a "secret weapon" that they have kept up their sleeve. They are not allowed to deliberately prepare a bad case just to prepare a better one later so they can earn more.

Is that what you think actually happened?

https://www.barstandardsboard.org.uk/re ... arristers/
Conduct in Court

708. A barrister when conducting proceedings in Court:

.................

(c)must ensure that the Court is informed of all relevant decisions and legislative provisions of which he is aware whether the effect is favourable or unfavourable towards the contention for which he argues;
Applicable to practising barristers

302. A barrister has an overriding duty to the Court to act with independence in the interests of justice: he must assist the Court in the administration of justice and must not deceive or knowingly or recklessly mislead the Court.
This has been about what a UK recognised degree is all along.

hassan5805
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Post by hassan5805 » Wed May 01, 2013 4:27 pm

Thehappyone wrote:Hi guys, I've been in the same position as most of you - having to go through the appeal system to try and obtain the psw visa with the ACCA qualification.

I believe in the past more people were successful with it but now that the UK is tightening their immigartion system it has been almost impossible to succeed.

I don't believe the likes of Paperpusher are trying to undermine our efforts but are merely helping us to state the obvious facts so as to help us make well informed decisions.

I implore you guys that while chasing the appeals, try to look at other visa categories you might qualify for as this is what I have done. I have used the appeal process as an opportunity to gather documents for another visa which I currently qualify for but did not at the time of my psw application and appeal, and I'll be applying for it next week.

I wish everyone the best.
wats other option do we hve??

PaperPusher
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Post by PaperPusher » Wed May 01, 2013 4:59 pm

hassan5805 wrote:
Thehappyone wrote:Hi guys, I've been in the same position as most of you - having to go through the appeal system to try and obtain the psw visa with the ACCA qualification.

I believe in the past more people were successful with it but now that the UK is tightening their immigartion system it has been almost impossible to succeed.

I don't believe the likes of Paperpusher are trying to undermine our efforts but are merely helping us to state the obvious facts so as to help us make well informed decisions.

I implore you guys that while chasing the appeals, try to look at other visa categories you might qualify for as this is what I have done. I have used the appeal process as an opportunity to gather documents for another visa which I currently qualify for but did not at the time of my psw application and appeal, and I'll be applying for it next week.

I wish everyone the best.
wats other option do we hve??
If you you were awarded an OBU degree before a decision was taken on your application and sent the details to UKBA this case is relevant:

http://www.ait.gov.uk/Public/Upload/j25 ... _nepal.doc

Other options are other categories of the points based system. Tier 2 with an employer, Tier 1 Entrepreneur, Tier 4 Student, Tier 5.

hassan5805
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Post by hassan5805 » Wed May 01, 2013 8:48 pm

Is it possible for us to go back to Student visa???
I have already paid full MBA fee to LSBF but they are not issuing me CAS letter now and they saying your appeal in process and you cant apply for student and other thing is yr visa expired more than 28 days>>>

Is there anything which i can show them to get cas..

How much statment i have to show..

Thanks in advance..

PaperPusher
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Location: London

Post by PaperPusher » Wed May 01, 2013 9:52 pm

hassan5805 wrote:Is it possible for us to go back to Student visa???
I have already paid full MBA fee to LSBF but they are not issuing me CAS letter now and they saying your appeal in process and you cant apply for student and other thing is yr visa expired more than 28 days>>>

Is there anything which i can show them to get cas..

How much statment i have to show..

Thanks in advance..
Your residence permit may have expired, but if you have an immigration appeal outstanding and you made the application in-time, your leave is treated as continuing under section 3D of the Immigration Act 1971 As Amended. That continues to apply until you withdraw an outstanding appeal, or it is allowed/dismissed, or you have passed the time limit for an appeal to be brought and you haven't appealed.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... idance.pdf
101. From 1 October 2012, all applications for further leave to remain will fall for refusal if a student has overstayed for more than 28 days, unless there were exceptional circumstances which prevented them from applying within the 28 day period. The 28 day period of overstaying is calculated from the latest of:
• the end of the last period of leave to enter or remain granted, or
• the end of any extension of leave under sections 3C or 3D of the Immigration Act 1971, or
You cannot have an appeal and application outstanding at the same time. You need to decide what you want to do. You need to get a CAS to apply, and I certainly wouldn't withdraw an appeal until I had the CAS in my hands and the application submitted, at least.

Do you have any correspondence about your appeal you can show them?

If you have other specific Tier 4 questions you may be better off putting your questions in a new topic in the Tier 4 section of the board.

PaperPusher
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Location: London

Post by PaperPusher » Wed May 01, 2013 10:14 pm

I should add, you won't get any right to work in the UK on Tier 4 now unless on certain level courses at certain types of institution. I don't think an MBA at LSBF will allow part time/holiday employment.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas ... onditions/

hassan5805
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Post by hassan5805 » Wed May 01, 2013 10:18 pm

Thanks work is nt an isuue i will leave my job if i didnt get part time work allowed.. Thanks for yr information

affiliate
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Post by affiliate » Thu May 02, 2013 1:29 am

PaperPusher wrote:
hassan5805 wrote:Is it possible for us to go back to Student visa???
I have already paid full MBA fee to LSBF but they are not issuing me CAS letter now and they saying your appeal in process and you cant apply for student and other thing is yr visa expired more than 28 days>>>

Is there anything which i can show them to get cas..

How much statment i have to show..

Thanks in advance..
Your residence permit may have expired, but if you have an immigration appeal outstanding and you made the application in-time, your leave is treated as continuing under section 3D of the Immigration Act 1971 As Amended. That continues to apply until you withdraw an outstanding appeal, or it is allowed/dismissed, or you have passed the time limit for an appeal to be brought and you haven't appealed.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... idance.pdf
101. From 1 October 2012, all applications for further leave to remain will fall for refusal if a student has overstayed for more than 28 days, unless there were exceptional circumstances which prevented them from applying within the 28 day period. The 28 day period of overstaying is calculated from the latest of:
• the end of the last period of leave to enter or remain granted, or
• the end of any extension of leave under sections 3C or 3D of the Immigration Act 1971, or
You cannot have an appeal and application outstanding at the same time. You need to decide what you want to do. You need to get a CAS to apply, and I certainly wouldn't withdraw an appeal until I had the CAS in my hands and the application submitted, at least.

Do you have any correspondence about your appeal you can show them?

If you have other specific Tier 4 questions you may be better off putting your questions in a new topic in the Tier 4 section of the board.
APL1.20 Applicant makes fresh application while an appeal is outstanding
A person who has an appeal pending can make a fresh application for entry clearance in the same or any other category. There is no requirement for a person to withdraw an appeal. If an appellant is subsequently issued an entry clearance, Post must inform the Tribunals Service at: eco.contact@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk. The ECO must ensure that a proforma of Withdrawal of Decision is also sent to the Tribunals Service and this appeal will stop.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... /#header20

affiliate
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Post by affiliate » Thu May 02, 2013 1:36 am

PaperPusher wrote:
affiliate wrote:
PaperPusher wrote:
affiliate wrote:
Would you please take a second to read my posts carefully?

I have already said this could be a secret weapon to be used in court of appeal OR a clever way to drag it to the Supreme Court to make more money for the lawyers...
Sorry, I thought you were being silly.

An appeal would have to be brought on an error of law, and not something the Judge was not even asked to consider. The Judge considered the guidance where he was asked to consider it.

I hope you are not saying that a barrister or solicitor deliberately failed in their duty to the court, and their client, just for a few thousand pounds? Because that is an incredibly serious accusation to make. I thought that was perhaps even upset over the decision talking, rather than an actual real considered opinion.
You should be banned from this forum for posting irresponsible comments....its not error of law..but a fresh piece of evidence should do...
Fresh pieces of evidence can't be brought to an appeal of an appeal like that. The appeal has to be because the judge has made an error of law. Evidence can't be drip fed into the appeal process.

http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/c ... 1a-eng.pdf
The appeal court will be unlikely to overturn a decision where no real difference would be made to the outcome of the case; or the appeal would involve re-examining the factual investigation undertaken by the lower court.
Remember that you must not include any grounds for appealing which rely on new evidence, that is evidence that has become available since the order was made. You may not produce new evidence in your appeal without first obtaining the permission of the appeal court.

i didn't mean new evidence...fresh point of law

Alvi case in ahmed case is not new evidence..it is well relevant to the current situation too..

someone present in the court told me the case was mentioned...can't verify if it is true or not

affiliate
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Post by affiliate » Thu May 02, 2013 1:52 am

PaperPusher wrote:
affiliate wrote:
PaperPusher wrote:
affiliate wrote:
Well it took posts and posts for you to understand this...

I think in one way and you think in a different way...here is the vagueness in immigration rules...there would have been LESS issues if they had defined the term...

There is no excuse but these rules must have been precise...now you got it...
Not really getting it. Sorry.

You have to read the rules normally, there are no tricks. What is the ordinary meaning in English?
Ordinary meaning in English is good when you read and enjoy Shakespeare's drama, not when defining law, where thousands of people from around the world have invested thousands of pounds...It must be precise...everything else is, why not this one...

Now you got it mate...
"Ordinary meaning" of the immigration rules is established case law.

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2008/1082.html
It is thus in the nature of the Immigration Rules that they include no over-arching implicit purposes. Their only purpose is to articulate the Secretary of State's specific policies with regard to immigration control from time to time, as to which there are no presumptions, liberal or restrictive. The whole of their meaning is, so to speak, worn on their sleeve. Mr Gill's plea for a construction which gives added value to family life assumes, or asserts, an internal force or impetus which the Rules entirely lack. There is no material basis for the suggestion that Mr Gill's favoured construction must be adopted to save the vires of the relevant Rules. Indeed in light of MW (Liberia) I do not consider that he was entitled to advance such a submission.
ordinary meaning suggests a degree recognised by the UK, there is such a mechanism-UKNARIC or QAA levels where applicable...

it is also established that application can't be refused based on something not included in rules...

there is a case law for everything my friend...its all about common sense

vinny
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Post by vinny » Thu May 02, 2013 4:23 am

affiliate wrote:APL1.20 Applicant makes fresh application while an appeal is outstanding
A person who has an appeal pending can make a fresh application for entry clearance in the same or any other category. There is no requirement for a person to withdraw an appeal. If an appellant is subsequently issued an entry clearance, Post must inform the Tribunals Service at: eco.contact@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk. The ECO must ensure that a proforma of Withdrawal of Decision is also sent to the Tribunals Service and this appeal will stop.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... /#header20
APL1.20 is only applicable to entry clearance applications, where Section 3C/3D is not relevant.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

Greenie
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Post by Greenie » Thu May 02, 2013 9:31 am

New arguments not brought in the original appeal cannot be brought before the court of appeal. Nevertheless the judge in syed followed the principles set out in alvi in that he considered the case in accordance with the immigration rules and other relevant law in place as opposed to policy guidance. He considered the arguments of the appellants where they sought to rely on the policy guidance as being more favourable than the immigration rules but he dismissed these arguments. It is not only the immigration rules that must be applied but other relevant legislation in force and as clearly referenced in the judges reasoning.

ssunny1985
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Post by ssunny1985 » Thu May 02, 2013 12:20 pm

affiliate wrote:
PaperPusher wrote:
affiliate wrote:
PaperPusher wrote:
Sorry, I thought you were being silly.

An appeal would have to be brought on an error of law, and not something the Judge was not even asked to consider. The Judge considered the guidance where he was asked to consider it.

I hope you are not saying that a barrister or solicitor deliberately failed in their duty to the court, and their client, just for a few thousand pounds? Because that is an incredibly serious accusation to make. I thought that was perhaps even upset over the decision talking, rather than an actual real considered opinion.
You should be banned from this forum for posting irresponsible comments....its not error of law..but a fresh piece of evidence should do...
Fresh pieces of evidence can't be brought to an appeal of an appeal like that. The appeal has to be because the judge has made an error of law. Evidence can't be drip fed into the appeal process.

http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/c ... 1a-eng.pdf
The appeal court will be unlikely to overturn a decision where no real difference would be made to the outcome of the case; or the appeal would involve re-examining the factual investigation undertaken by the lower court.
Remember that you must not include any grounds for appealing which rely on new evidence, that is evidence that has become available since the order was made. You may not produce new evidence in your appeal without first obtaining the permission of the appeal court.

i didn't mean new evidence...fresh point of law

Alvi case in ahmed case is not new evidence..it is well relevant to the current situation too..

someone present in the court told me the case was mentioned...can't verify if it is true or not
Yes alvi case was discussed in court during syed hearing.

PaperPusher
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Post by PaperPusher » Thu May 02, 2013 12:47 pm

Zane Malik is on twitter (@MalikZane). People can keep an eye on that for updates.
1/2: High Court’s judgment (Holman J) in ACCA/PSW test cases (Syed/Ahmed) is out. I appeared from the Claimant........
2:45pm - 26 Apr 13
2/2: As a number other cases were stayed behind these test cases, I will keep you updated on what happens on appeal to the Court of Appeal.
2:46pm - 26 Apr 13

Omer_sharif
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PSW CASE

Post by Omer_sharif » Sat May 04, 2013 1:15 am

Hi fellas if it is da case the one in high court, then I am sorry to say that we lost the case and it applies to all of us including me as well .....

Wat next ? let me know asap coz I think i m one of the oldest people stuck in this thing?

Lets find sum solution??


Regards

Omer

affiliate
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Post by affiliate » Sat May 04, 2013 2:16 am

vinny wrote:
affiliate wrote:APL1.20 Applicant makes fresh application while an appeal is outstanding
A person who has an appeal pending can make a fresh application for entry clearance in the same or any other category. There is no requirement for a person to withdraw an appeal. If an appellant is subsequently issued an entry clearance, Post must inform the Tribunals Service at: eco.contact@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk. The ECO must ensure that a proforma of Withdrawal of Decision is also sent to the Tribunals Service and this appeal will stop.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... /#header20
APL1.20 is only applicable to entry clearance applications, where Section 3C/3D is not relevant.
I saw those details and posted them for your valuable comments...

But does that document you have posted say anything about making an application in a different category??
accordance with sections 3C (2)(c) and 3D(2)(b) leave is extended while an incountry
appeal is pending.
An appeal is pending from the time that it is instituted until it is finally determined,
withdrawn or abandoned. Section 104 (1) of the 2002 Act applies. An appeal is
abandoned if the appellant is granted leave to enter or remain in the UK or if he
leaves the UK. Section 104 (4) applies.
Whats does it mean by ''withdrawn''?

vinny
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Post by vinny » Sat May 04, 2013 9:31 am

The appellant or respondent may withdraw if they don't wish to proceed with the appeal.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

laghari_iam
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Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:37 pm

q

Post by laghari_iam » Sat May 04, 2013 1:19 pm

can anyone please be kind and reply to this simple question of mine.

Is it necessary to file your JR in 90 days by the day you submitted your pre action protocol? if by any chance you go over 90 days? will they still accept it or not? please reply ASAP. thanks

hassan5805
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Posts: 496
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:58 am

Re: PSW CASE

Post by hassan5805 » Sat May 04, 2013 1:44 pm

Omer_sharif wrote:Hi fellas if it is da case the one in high court, then I am sorry to say that we lost the case and it applies to all of us including me as well .....

Wat next ? let me know asap coz I think i m one of the oldest people stuck in this thing?

Lets find sum solution??


Regards

Omer
mate i am in the same situation and its sure for fact now there is no more hope left..Coz we lost in upper and High court now and to be honest i dont think so if is there any chance..All we can do just pray and find alternative to switch back on student visa.. As i heared Zane Malik is hopeful that we will in court of appeal and hope hes ryte too.. Good luck for yr future..

Greenie
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Re: q

Post by Greenie » Sat May 04, 2013 8:50 pm

laghari_iam wrote:can anyone please be kind and reply to this simple question of mine.

Is it necessary to file your JR in 90 days by the day you submitted your pre action protocol? if by any chance you go over 90 days? will they still accept it or not? please reply ASAP. thanks
The court would usually expect that you file for JR within 3 months of the decision or action you are challenging, although you are expected to file as soon as possible, it is not that you have 3 months to file for JR and you can simply wait until the last day to apply. On the other hand it is open to the court to accept late applications if there are good reasons for this.

laghari_iam
Junior Member
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Re: q

Post by laghari_iam » Sat May 04, 2013 9:12 pm

Greenie wrote:
laghari_iam wrote:can anyone please be kind and reply to this simple question of mine.

Is it necessary to file your JR in 90 days by the day you submitted your pre action protocol? if by any chance you go over 90 days? will they still accept it or not? please reply ASAP. thanks
The court would usually expect that you file for JR within 3 months of the decision or action you are challenging, although you are expected to file as soon as possible, it is not that you have 3 months to file for JR and you can simply wait until the last day to apply. On the other hand it is open to the court to accept late applications if there are good reasons for this.
is that these 90 days are only weekdays right? so that means i got more then 90 days anyway.. thanks for the info.

Greenie
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Post by Greenie » Sun May 05, 2013 12:38 am

It's 3 calendar months, not 90 working days.

hassan5805
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Post by hassan5805 » Wed May 08, 2013 8:43 am

Hi Guys Can you please answer to my query please especially moderator..
Thanks in Advance..
My appeal refused from FTT and Honourable Judge forget to take S47 removal out from decision..
Got permssion to go UTT on the basis of error in law remvals..
wENT For hearing in UTT last week,..
Received decision and Respected Honorable Judge gave decision that FTT had error in his decision of s47 remval and for that reason i allow thier appeal and ask home office to consider his application also the basis of Human Rights too..
and i will also get fresh right of appeal if HO refuse my application again..

Does anyone know whats gonna happen now ??
Will HO write to me to get my passport Back ??
How long will it take??
Do i have to send some private life proves to the HO or not??
Any suggestion will appreciate..

affiliate
Newbie
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:11 pm

Post by affiliate » Wed May 08, 2013 10:22 am

hassan5805 wrote:Hi Guys Can you please answer to my query please especially moderator..
Thanks in Advance..
Myand appeal refused from FTT and Honourable Judge forget to take S47 removal out from decision..
Got permssion to go UTT on the basis of error in law remvals..
wENT For hearing in UTT last week,..
Received decision and Respected Honorable Judge gave decision that FTT had error in his decision of s47 remval and for that reason i allow thier appeal and ask home office to consider his application also the basis of Human Rights too..
and i will also get fresh right of appeal if HO refuse my application again..

Does anyone know whats gonna happen now ??
Will HO write to me to get my passport Back ??
How long will it take??
Do i have to send some private life proves to the HO or not??
Any suggestion will appreciate..
If I was you I would check what are the aspects of human rights, like right to social life, family life etc and send HO a letter mentioning key points relevant in your case and with evidences such as photographs, membership in associations, letters from people of good standing in the society etc as exhibits.

I heard there is a 6 month deadline for HO to take a decision, from EU. Hope someone will comment on this.

I have got a feeling that you will get it eventually.

hassan5805
Member of Standing
Posts: 496
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:58 am

Post by hassan5805 » Wed May 08, 2013 10:40 am

affiliate wrote:
hassan5805 wrote:Hi Guys Can you please answer to my query please especially moderator..
Thanks in Advance..
Myand appeal refused from FTT and Honourable Judge forget to take S47 removal out from decision..
Got permssion to go UTT on the basis of error in law remvals..
wENT For hearing in UTT last week,..
Received decision and Respected Honorable Judge gave decision that FTT had error in his decision of s47 remval and for that reason i allow thier appeal and ask home office to consider his application also the basis of Human Rights too..
and i will also get fresh right of appeal if HO refuse my application again..

Does anyone know whats gonna happen now ??
Will HO write to me to get my passport Back ??
How long will it take??
Do i have to send some private life proves to the HO or not??
Any suggestion will appreciate..
If I was you I would check what are the aspects of human rights, like right to social life, family life etc and send HO a letter mentioning key points relevant in your case and with evidences such as photographs, membership in associations, letters from people of good standing in the society etc as exhibits.

I heard there is a 6 month deadline for HO to take a decision, from EU. Hope someone will comment on this.

I have got a feeling that you will get it eventually.
Thank you very much for your reply.. I am very thanking to the Hounourable Judge she got really soft heart.. She have also said to me send the details to HO that you have paid so much fees to get the education and also get some letter off from yr family members and write down you have develop a private life here thnks..

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