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Traffic offence

Only for UK Skilled Worker and Tier 2 (Employer Sponsored) points system Tier 2

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Djsuccess
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Traffic offence

Post by Djsuccess » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:25 pm

I have read a lot of threads here on traffic offence and till now it's still not so clear. I came across this question in the online form
"A penalty for a driving offence, e.g. disqualification for speeding or no insurance"
I had a Parking PCN (July 2014) and Bus lane-PCN (october 2015) none of which was intentional. Both fines were paid to the local council. Would these count as part of the penlaty for a driving offence to be declared?

Accoording to the penalty table from here, https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway ... -penalties
neither parking nor Bus lane PCN was mentioned in the driving offences.

Is there a dcoument highlighting what driving offences are from UKVI's perspective?

I know it will be better to declare it and later find out that its not needed than to keep quiet and find out that it should be declared.-This is my thought. But I will like to hear from as many as possible who have gone through a similar situation.

And in case my questions have been answered in another thread, I will be happy to be directed there.


thanks
I am not a lawyer and do not claim to be one. All my comments here are based on my opinions, experience and interpretation of the appropriate UKVI guidance documents and immigration rules.

eduleal
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Re: Traffic offence

Post by eduleal » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:44 am

When in doubt, always declare it.
A parking ticket in itself shouldn't be a big deal, whilst hiding it could be.

eduleal
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Re: Traffic offence

Post by eduleal » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:45 am

When you view your Penalties & Disqualifications in here:
https://www.gov.uk/view-driving-licence

Does it show up?
In the affirmative, definitely declare it.

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dragon098
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Re: Traffic offence

Post by dragon098 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:03 am

Hi Djsuccess,

I have PCN to for driving in Bus Lane and Speeding Ticket (FPN) and like you said you have PCN for Parking and Bus Lane.

PCN and FPN if either you pay on time then they are only counted as civil penalties. Both of this should be mentioned under Civil Penalties and not in Penalty for a driving offence.
Naturalisation Approval: 21 Oct
Council: Wandsworth

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Djsuccess
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Re: Traffic offence

Post by Djsuccess » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:37 pm

eduleal wrote:When in doubt, always declare it.
A parking ticket in itself shouldn't be a big deal, whilst hiding it could be.

Thank you
I am not a lawyer and do not claim to be one. All my comments here are based on my opinions, experience and interpretation of the appropriate UKVI guidance documents and immigration rules.

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Djsuccess
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Re: Traffic offence

Post by Djsuccess » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:39 pm

dragon098 wrote:Hi Djsuccess,

I have PCN to for driving in Bus Lane and Speeding Ticket (FPN) and like you said you have PCN for Parking and Bus Lane.

PCN and FPN if either you pay on time then they are only counted as civil penalties. Both of this should be mentioned under Civil Penalties and not in Penalty for a driving offence.

Thank you. I will declare it under civil penalties. Thank you.
I am not a lawyer and do not claim to be one. All my comments here are based on my opinions, experience and interpretation of the appropriate UKVI guidance documents and immigration rules.

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Djsuccess
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Re: Traffic offence

Post by Djsuccess » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:41 pm

eduleal wrote:When you view your Penalties & Disqualifications in here:
https://www.gov.uk/view-driving-licence

Does it show up?
In the affirmative, definitely declare it.

Thank you once again. I wasn't planning to hide it, I just wanted to be sure of how and where to declare it.
I am not a lawyer and do not claim to be one. All my comments here are based on my opinions, experience and interpretation of the appropriate UKVI guidance documents and immigration rules.

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Djsuccess
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Re: Traffic offence

Post by Djsuccess » Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:24 pm

dragon098 wrote:Hi Djsuccess,

I have PCN to for driving in Bus Lane and Speeding Ticket (FPN) and like you said you have PCN for Parking and Bus Lane.

PCN and FPN if either you pay on time then they are only counted as civil penalties. Both of this should be mentioned under Civil Penalties and not in Penalty for a driving offence.

Hello Dragon098,

Here are the two options,

"A penalty for a driving offence, e.g. disqualification for speeding or no insurance"

"A civil penalty issued under UK immigration law"


Is it right then to categorize PCN ( parking and Bus Lane ) as civil penalty issued under UK immigration law?


The PCN (parking) was issued under Road Traffic Act 1991 and the Bus Lane contravention was under Transport Act 2001.

I want to declare the PCNs and I want to be sure of the right place to put it.
I am not a lawyer and do not claim to be one. All my comments here are based on my opinions, experience and interpretation of the appropriate UKVI guidance documents and immigration rules.

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dragon098
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Re: Traffic offence

Post by dragon098 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:14 am

Hi Djscuccess,

No need to go that deep.

I am 100% SURE because moderator CR001 told me to mention it under Civil Penalties and Please do trust me because that is what I mentioned in my Application.

You need to know that "A penalty for a driving offence, e.g. disqualification for speeding or no insurance" it means that your license was talking by police and you were not able to drive and on top of that you received point.

If that's the case then you need to mention it in "A penalty for a driving offence, e.g. disqualification for speeding or no insurance".

But if everything was settle by paying Fines then you need to list it under "A civil penalty issued under UK immigration law".

Please do trust me because this was giving me headache but at the end of the day it wasn't a big issue for people who are extending tier 2.
Naturalisation Approval: 21 Oct
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Djsuccess
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Re: Traffic offence

Post by Djsuccess » Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:42 pm

dragon098 wrote:Hi Djscuccess,

No need to go that deep.

I am 100% SURE because moderator CR001 told me to mention it under Civil Penalties and Please do trust me because that is what I mentioned in my Application.

You need to know that "A penalty for a driving offence, e.g. disqualification for speeding or no insurance" it means that your license was talking by police and you were not able to drive and on top of that you received point.

If that's the case then you need to mention it in "A penalty for a driving offence, e.g. disqualification for speeding or no insurance".

But if everything was settle by paying Fines then you need to list it under "A civil penalty issued under UK immigration law".

Please do trust me because this was giving me headache but at the end of the day it wasn't a big issue for people who are extending tier 2.


I called UKVI general enquiries line this afternoon, I also called yesterday. The two people I spoke to confirmed that PCNs dont fall under Driving offence and that they are civil penalty under immigration law. While one of them told me to speak to immigration lawyer to get advice on how to proceed with declaring the PCNs in the right place, the other person simply told me that if there's no appropriate place to declare PCNs, then maybe they irrelevant to the application and dont need to be declared.

I don't know what to do ,I will like o declare it but at the same time I don't want to put it at the wrong place to avoid future complexity.
I am not a lawyer and do not claim to be one. All my comments here are based on my opinions, experience and interpretation of the appropriate UKVI guidance documents and immigration rules.

eduleal
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Re: Traffic offence

Post by eduleal » Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:55 pm

I'm not a lawyer -
But because they are clearly not a big deal or a real impediment to a visa application - I don't think declaring them in the wrong place would be a major issue, as long as you declare it.
They wouldn't automatically discard your application if you have a driving offence OR a civil penalty - thus, once they look at your description of the penalty, they will know exactly what you mean.

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Djsuccess
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Re: Traffic offence

Post by Djsuccess » Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:36 pm

Djsuccess wrote:
dragon098 wrote:Hi Djscuccess,

No need to go that deep.

I am 100% SURE because moderator CR001 told me to mention it under Civil Penalties and Please do trust me because that is what I mentioned in my Application.

You need to know that "A penalty for a driving offence, e.g. disqualification for speeding or no insurance" it means that your license was talking by police and you were not able to drive and on top of that you received point.

If that's the case then you need to mention it in "A penalty for a driving offence, e.g. disqualification for speeding or no insurance".

But if everything was settle by paying Fines then you need to list it under "A civil penalty issued under UK immigration law".

Please do trust me because this was giving me headache but at the end of the day it wasn't a big issue for people who are extending tier 2.


I called UKVI general enquiries line this afternoon, I also called yesterday. The two people I spoke to confirmed that PCNs dont fall under Driving offence and that they are not civil penalty under immigration law. While one of them told me to speak to immigration lawyer to get advice on how to proceed with declaring the PCNs in the right place, the other person simply told me that if there's no appropriate place to declare PCNs, then maybe they are irrelevant to the application and dont need to be declared.

I don't know what to do ,I will like o declare it but at the same time I don't want to put it at the wrong place to avoid future complexity.
I am not a lawyer and do not claim to be one. All my comments here are based on my opinions, experience and interpretation of the appropriate UKVI guidance documents and immigration rules.

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Djsuccess
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Re: Traffic offence

Post by Djsuccess » Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:47 pm

eduleal wrote:I'm not a lawyer -
But because they are clearly not a big deal or a real impediment to a visa application - I don't think declaring them in the wrong place would be a major issue, as long as you declare it.
They wouldn't automatically discard your application if you have a driving offence OR a civil penalty - thus, once they look at your description of the penalty, they will know exactly what you mean.

Thanks eduleal,

I called a Lawyer, and they were going to charge me £150 just for consultation. I guess they are not going to tell me anything different from what I have read in this forum. so I don't know if to go for them or not.
It would have been nice if the online form has a place for additional information as it was in the old paper application form.
page 11 in the good character requirement for British Citizenship explains FPN and PCN.

Fixed Penalty Notices, Penalty Charge Notices and Penalty Notices for Disorder are
imposed by the Police or other authorised enforcement officers for traffic rule
violations, environmental and civil violations. It is a way of the criminal justice system
disposing of fairly minor offences without the need for a person to attend court.
Receiving one does not form part of a person’s criminal record as there is no
admission of guilt.
The decision maker will not consider these unless the person has:
a. failed to pay and there were criminal proceedings as a result; or
b. received numerous fixed penalty notices which would suggest a pattern of
behaviour that calls into question their character.
Where a fixed penalty notice or fiscal fine has been referred to a court due to nonpayment
or the notice has been unsuccessfully challenged by the person in court,
the decision maker will consider this as a conviction and assessed in line with the
new sentence imposed.
Where b. applies, the decision maker will consider the factors listed at section 3.8 –
Considering Cumulative, Non-Custodial Sentences.
Further information on Penalty Notices for Disorder is available on the Ministry of
Justice website: http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/ooc ... e-oocd.pdf
I am not a lawyer and do not claim to be one. All my comments here are based on my opinions, experience and interpretation of the appropriate UKVI guidance documents and immigration rules.

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Djsuccess
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Re: Traffic offence

Post by Djsuccess » Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:50 pm

Djsuccess wrote:
dragon098 wrote:Hi Djscuccess,

No need to go that deep.

I am 100% SURE because moderator CR001 told me to mention it under Civil Penalties and Please do trust me because that is what I mentioned in my Application.

You need to know that "A penalty for a driving offence, e.g. disqualification for speeding or no insurance" it means that your license was talking by police and you were not able to drive and on top of that you received point.

If that's the case then you need to mention it in "A penalty for a driving offence, e.g. disqualification for speeding or no insurance".

But if everything was settle by paying Fines then you need to list it under "A civil penalty issued under UK immigration law".

Please do trust me because this was giving me headache but at the end of the day it wasn't a big issue for people who are extending tier 2.


I called UKVI general enquiries line this afternoon, I also called yesterday. The two people I spoke to confirmed that PCNs dont fall under Driving offence and that they are civil penalty under immigration law. While one of them told me to speak to immigration lawyer to get advice on how to proceed with declaring the PCNs in the right place, the other person simply told me that if there's no appropriate place to declare PCNs, then maybe they irrelevant to the application and dont need to be declared.

I don't know what to do ,I will like o declare it but at the same time I don't want to put it at the wrong place to avoid future complexity.

I meant They are NOT civil penalty under immigration law
I am not a lawyer and do not claim to be one. All my comments here are based on my opinions, experience and interpretation of the appropriate UKVI guidance documents and immigration rules.

eduleal
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Re: Traffic offence

Post by eduleal » Thu Nov 17, 2016 4:58 pm

The online form DOES have a section for additional information.

Once you select what kind of penalty to declare - it will lead you to a new window where you can describe everything about it.

I think you are over-analysing. Just select the one that makes the most sense and describe exactly what it was, including dates etc - it's clearly not the case of a behavioural pattern.

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Djsuccess
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Re: Traffic offence

Post by Djsuccess » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:04 pm

eduleal wrote:The online form DOES have a section for additional information.

Once you select what kind of penalty to declare - it will lead you to a new window where you can describe everything about it.

I think you are over-analysing. Just select the one that makes the most sense and describe exactly what it was, including dates etc - it's clearly not the case of a behavioural pattern.

@eduleal.
Thank you . I guess I am indeed over analysing it. That's the only reason why I have not submitted my application. I have to decide on what to do in the next 1 to 2 days so I can go ahead with my application.

Thanks once again.
I am not a lawyer and do not claim to be one. All my comments here are based on my opinions, experience and interpretation of the appropriate UKVI guidance documents and immigration rules.

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Djsuccess
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Re: Traffic offence

Post by Djsuccess » Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:02 am

i came across this,

What is a criminal conviction?

A criminal conviction applies to all convictions, cautions, reprimands and final warnings. This includes minor misdemeanours, such as:

spent sentences, cautions, and any matters currently under investigation
any conviction, caution or investigation in relation to a criminal offence
road traffic offences (speeding, parking fines) except where the matter has been dealt with by way of a ‘fixed penalty notice’ as such matters do not constitute a criminal conviction


PCN / FPN with fines paid are not criminal convictions
I am not a lawyer and do not claim to be one. All my comments here are based on my opinions, experience and interpretation of the appropriate UKVI guidance documents and immigration rules.

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Djsuccess
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Re: Traffic offence

Post by Djsuccess » Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:11 pm

hello everyone,
one final question on this, how about parking tickets issued by private parking companies, should they be declared as well?
I am not a lawyer and do not claim to be one. All my comments here are based on my opinions, experience and interpretation of the appropriate UKVI guidance documents and immigration rules.

eduleal
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Re: Traffic offence

Post by eduleal » Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:48 pm

Dude, how much illegal parking do you do?
Joking aside, I really don't see why you should declare that.

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Djsuccess
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Re: Traffic offence

Post by Djsuccess » Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:43 pm

eduleal wrote:Dude, how much illegal parking do you do?
Joking aside, I really don't see why you should declare that.
haha. believe me. I am a law abiding resident of UK. I only have 1 parking ticket from a private parking company and it was due to misinformation.

Thanks
I am not a lawyer and do not claim to be one. All my comments here are based on my opinions, experience and interpretation of the appropriate UKVI guidance documents and immigration rules.

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