ESC

Click the "allow" button if you want to receive important news and updates from immigrationboards.com


Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Welcome to immigrationboards.com!

Login Register Do not show

Tier 4 - transferring to another university

Only for UK Tier 4 (Student) points system
Tier 4

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe

Post Reply
nc2736
Newly Registered
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:35 pm
Turkey

Tier 4 - transferring to another university

Post by nc2736 » Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:50 pm

Hi everyone,

I am a PhD student in the UK. I have transferred, for example, from University A (UA) to the university B (UB) in November 2019. I completed my first two years at UA, then started my 3rd year at UB.


During the transferring process, UB told me that I have to go back to my home country to apply for a new Tier 4 visa because I cannot do it here in the UK due to new regulations launched in October 2019. I did what they told me and went back to my country, got a new visa and came back to the UK.

After that, I applied to get my IHS refund, because I paid twice. But they told me that you cannot get a refund because you left UK before your visa (first visa provided by under the sponsorship of UA). But, the rules also told me that I cannot apply for a new visa in the UK.

However, one of my friends also had a transferring issue. We started PhD together with her and we transferred to another university in the same year (at the end of the 2nd year). She did not go back to her country to apply for a new visa. Because her new university told her that she can apply in the UK.

So seems that my university mismanaged me and I cannot get back the money I spent on the IHS and plus flights and hotels.

Here, I just would like to ask you that could you please show me which rule says that I can apply in the UK or I cannot apply in the UK?

Many thanks

User avatar
Zerubbabel
Respected Guru
Posts: 1479
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:13 am
Mood:

Re: Tier 4 - transferring to another university

Post by Zerubbabel » Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:56 am

Hello

This page shows the conditions under which you can extend your Tier 4 within the UK:

https://www.gov.uk/tier-4-general-visa/eligibility

I don't know if they gave you the correct advice or not. It depends if you are eligible to extend from the UK. But even if they gave you the wrong advice and you ended up extending from abroad, you have to consider:

- They are a university not an immigration consultancy. It's ultimately your responsibility to do due diligence and see if the recommendation they give you is correct and in your best interest. Immigration law is complex in the UK to the point where even Home Office Caseworkers make mistakes.

- I don't recommend you sue the university to try to recover the fees (flight, hotel... etc) incurred by a wrong recommendation to extend from abroad. They have enough fine prints you agreed/signed at one point to dismiss you.

- The most important: the academic community in the UK is small. If you pull a fight in a place A you may later get issues in place B just because information circulates, people move around... I am not implying they retaliate against you or anything, it just that you need people, you need doors to be open, you need to be seen favourably for new opportunities.. and this goodwill can be compromised if you have a reputation of picking up fights against the university to recoup personal losses.

sah10406
Diamond Member
Posts: 2616
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:09 am

Re: Tier 4 - transferring to another university

Post by sah10406 » Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:06 pm

nc2736 wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:50 pm
Here, I just would like to ask you that could you please show me which rule says that I can apply in the UK or I cannot apply in the UK?
Your university was wrong.

A Tier 4 application made in the UK must confirm academic progress on the CAS, or must confirm that you are exempt from needing academic progress. Academic progress is defined in paragraph 120A(b) of the immigration rules, and generally means moving up an academic level plus having completed the course for which the last CAS was assigned.

Some people are exempt from needing it, so they can apply in the UK without going up a level and without having completed the course for which the CAS was issued. They are explained in paragraph 120A(a) and include where

the applicant is applying for leave to continue studying at their current Tier 4 Sponsor for the purpose of completing the PhD or other doctoral qualification for which study was undertaken during the last period of leave as a Tier 4 (General) Student

This exemption in the immigration rules is only for people continuing their PhD at the same university, but the modernised guidance for caseworkers assessing Tier 4 states on page 47 that it also apples to someone moving to a new university:

they are applying to complete the PhD or other doctoral qualification for which study was undertaken in the last grant of Tier 4 or Student leave (including where they are completing the qualification at a new sponsor).

https://www.gov.uk/government/collectio ... d-guidance

It is in the guidance for Tier 4 sponsors issuing CASs at paragraph 5.21f of document 2:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -educators

It is also in the guidance for Tier 4 applicants at paragraph 331:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -4-student

I think you do have a case for making a complaint to the university, and possible a claim for your costs for an unnecessary trip home. You might want to get advice from the students union about doing this.
I do not give immigration advice. I refer you to Immigration Rules, guidance, other online content and to your sponsor.

nc2736
Newly Registered
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:35 pm
Turkey

Re: Tier 4 - transferring to another university

Post by nc2736 » Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:38 pm

Zerubbabel wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:56 am
Hello

This page shows the conditions under which you can extend your Tier 4 within the UK:

https://www.gov.uk/tier-4-general-visa/eligibility

I don't know if they gave you the correct advice or not. It depends if you are eligible to extend from the UK. But even if they gave you the wrong advice and you ended up extending from abroad, you have to consider:

- They are a university not an immigration consultancy. It's ultimately your responsibility to do due diligence and see if the recommendation they give you is correct and in your best interest. Immigration law is complex in the UK to the point where even Home Office Caseworkers make mistakes.

- I don't recommend you sue the university to try to recover the fees (flight, hotel... etc) incurred by a wrong recommendation to extend from abroad. They have enough fine prints you agreed/signed at one point to dismiss you.

- The most important: the academic community in the UK is small. If you pull a fight in a place A you may later get issues in place B just because information circulates, people move around... I am not implying they retaliate against you or anything, it just that you need people, you need doors to be open, you need to be seen favourably for new opportunities.. and this goodwill can be compromised if you have a reputation of picking up fights against the university to recoup personal losses.
I got your point, you are right. But another issue is that if they are doing wrong, they must know it to change it! Otherwise, a lot of students will face the same situation and pay a lot of money. Many thanks for your reply.

nc2736
Newly Registered
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:35 pm
Turkey

Re: Tier 4 - transferring to another university

Post by nc2736 » Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:40 pm

sah10406 wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:06 pm
nc2736 wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:50 pm
Here, I just would like to ask you that could you please show me which rule says that I can apply in the UK or I cannot apply in the UK?
Your university was wrong.

A Tier 4 application made in the UK must confirm academic progress on the CAS, or must confirm that you are exempt from needing academic progress. Academic progress is defined in paragraph 120A(b) of the immigration rules, and generally means moving up an academic level plus having completed the course for which the last CAS was assigned.

Some people are exempt from needing it, so they can apply in the UK without going up a level and without having completed the course for which the CAS was issued. They are explained in paragraph 120A(a) and include where

the applicant is applying for leave to continue studying at their current Tier 4 Sponsor for the purpose of completing the PhD or other doctoral qualification for which study was undertaken during the last period of leave as a Tier 4 (General) Student

This exemption in the immigration rules is only for people continuing their PhD at the same university, but the modernised guidance for caseworkers assessing Tier 4 states on page 47 that it also apples to someone moving to a new university:

they are applying to complete the PhD or other doctoral qualification for which study was undertaken in the last grant of Tier 4 or Student leave (including where they are completing the qualification at a new sponsor).

https://www.gov.uk/government/collectio ... d-guidance

It is in the guidance for Tier 4 sponsors issuing CASs at paragraph 5.21f of document 2:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -educators

It is also in the guidance for Tier 4 applicants at paragraph 331:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -4-student

I think you do have a case for making a complaint to the university, and possible a claim for your costs for an unnecessary trip home. You might want to get advice from the students union about doing this.
Thank you so much for your detailed answer. I really appreciate it!

User avatar
Zerubbabel
Respected Guru
Posts: 1479
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:13 am
Mood:

Re: Tier 4 - transferring to another university

Post by Zerubbabel » Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:28 am

I got your point, you are right. But another issue is that if they are doing wrong, they must know it to change it! Otherwise, a lot of students will face the same situation and pay a lot of money. Many thanks for your reply.
I agree with you. You can try to send an email/letter to educate them. But you won't get more than "Oh, I am sorry for that".

Many professionals who are supposed to deal with immigration matters are just not trained and hold incorrect beliefs. Even at airports, you see check-in staff struggling with some basic situations, delaying people, creating embarrassment to people travelling fully within their right.

sah10406
Diamond Member
Posts: 2616
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:09 am

Re: Tier 4 - transferring to another university

Post by sah10406 » Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:49 am

Zerubbabel wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:28 am
I agree with you. You can try to send an email/letter to educate them. But you won't get more than "Oh, I am sorry for that".
I disagree strongly with this. If OP went to the bother and expense of travelling to their home country purely because they were misadvised by the university that they were unable to apply in the UK, they should complain about the bad advice. The complaint can ask for compensation for the costs, time and even stress.
Zerubbabel wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:28 am
Many professionals who are supposed to deal with immigration matters are just not trained and hold incorrect beliefs.
There are several different types of staff at universities, and it is important not to confuse them.

The compliance staff are in effect the Home Office's representative at the university. They decide who can be sponsored under Tier 4, including whether they have academic progress. It seems to have been they who made the mistake here.

Separately, there is the international student adviser who gives professional, trained and OISC supervised immigration advice, including about Tier 4 applications. I can imagine that the international student advisers would have disagreed with the compliance staff in this case, and they would have been correct to do so.

There is also the Students Union who do not usually give immigration advice, but who can represent the student in any dispute or complaint against the university including where either the compliance person or the international student adviser has made mistakes that have caused the student problems.

Occasionally the first and second role is combined but most universities realise that could be a conflict of ineterest and separate them. Also, at a few universities the international student adviser is based in the students union anyway, but not many.
I do not give immigration advice. I refer you to Immigration Rules, guidance, other online content and to your sponsor.

nc2736
Newly Registered
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:35 pm
Turkey

Re: Tier 4 - transferring to another university

Post by nc2736 » Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:52 pm

sah10406 wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:06 pm
nc2736 wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:50 pm
Here, I just would like to ask you that could you please show me which rule says that I can apply in the UK or I cannot apply in the UK?
Your university was wrong.

A Tier 4 application made in the UK must confirm academic progress on the CAS, or must confirm that you are exempt from needing academic progress. Academic progress is defined in paragraph 120A(b) of the immigration rules, and generally means moving up an academic level plus having completed the course for which the last CAS was assigned.

Some people are exempt from needing it, so they can apply in the UK without going up a level and without having completed the course for which the CAS was issued. They are explained in paragraph 120A(a) and include where

the applicant is applying for leave to continue studying at their current Tier 4 Sponsor for the purpose of completing the PhD or other doctoral qualification for which study was undertaken during the last period of leave as a Tier 4 (General) Student

This exemption in the immigration rules is only for people continuing their PhD at the same university, but the modernised guidance for caseworkers assessing Tier 4 states on page 47 that it also apples to someone moving to a new university:

they are applying to complete the PhD or other doctoral qualification for which study was undertaken in the last grant of Tier 4 or Student leave (including where they are completing the qualification at a new sponsor).

https://www.gov.uk/government/collectio ... d-guidance

It is in the guidance for Tier 4 sponsors issuing CASs at paragraph 5.21f of document 2:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -educators

It is also in the guidance for Tier 4 applicants at paragraph 331:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -4-student

I think you do have a case for making a complaint to the university, and possible a claim for your costs for an unnecessary trip home. You might want to get advice from the students union about doing this.



Hi again,

The below message from the university;

********************
On 1 October 2019, the Immigration Rules related to academic progress for students completing a doctorate qualification (including PhD) were amended.

The requirement that the applicant's last Tier 4 visa must have been granted in order to undertake study for the same qualification was removed, but the requirement that the application must be in order to continue study with the same Tier 4 sponsor was added.

The relevant Immigration Rule is paragraph 120A(a)(ii) in Appendix A: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration ... attributes

"If the applicant has previously been granted leave as a Tier 4 (General) Student or as a Student and is applying for leave to remain...if the sponsor has confirmed that the course...represents academic progress...except where:

...(ii) the applicant is applying for leave to continue studying at their current Tier 4 Sponsor for the purpose of completing the PhD or other doctoral qualification for which study was undertaken during the last period of leave as a Tier 4 (General) Student or as a Student"

The Tier 4 policy guidance and Tier 4 sponsor guidance documents published on 29 and 30 October 2019 retained an exception to academic progress for PhD students changing sponsor.

The relevant section of Tier 4 policy guidance v.10/2019 is paragraph 331:

"You do not need to show academic progression if any of the following apply to you:

...you are applying to complete the PhD or other doctoral qualification for which study was undertaken in the last grant of Tier 4 or Student leave (including where you are completing the qualification at a new sponsor)"

In your situation, there was a disparity between the Immigration Rules and guidance so the University immigration advice was based on the Immigration Rules because these would be the basis of a visa refusal decision.

Our advice was that you must apply for your Tier 4 visa outside the UK because you would not meet the academic progress exemption in paragraph 120A(a)(ii) of Immigration Rules.
********************

What do you think about this? Are Immigrations Rules a valid reason for me to apply for a new visa at outside of the UK?

I really cannot understand. For IHS refund, rules say that if I leave the country before my visa ends, I cannot get a refund. However, according to the school, the Immigration rules indicate that I have to leave the country to re-apply for a new visa. There is something wrong, but which side?

Many thanks in advance,

Best wishes.

sah10406
Diamond Member
Posts: 2616
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:09 am

Re: Tier 4 - transferring to another university

Post by sah10406 » Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:11 pm

nc2736 wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:52 pm
What do you think about this?
I think it is absurd that the university thinks the Home Office could refuse your application for not meeting the rules when they have specifically added a concession to the normal rule in their guidance for both sponsors and applicants.

Does your university think the Home Office is trying to trick them or something?

Ridiculous.
I do not give immigration advice. I refer you to Immigration Rules, guidance, other online content and to your sponsor.

Sangwan
Newly Registered
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:51 am
Mood:
India

Re: Tier 4 - transferring to another university

Post by Sangwan » Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:43 pm

Hello,
I want to get transferred from my current university to another university because of my personal problems. So, I am little bit confused about can I change or get transferred in another university while in UK and what would be the procedure for that if possible.

nc2736
Newly Registered
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:35 pm
Turkey

Re: Tier 4 - transferring to another university

Post by nc2736 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:28 am

Sangwan wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:43 pm
Hello,
I want to get transferred from my current university to another university because of my personal problems. So, I am little bit confused about can I change or get transferred in another university while in UK and what would be the procedure for that if possible.

Hi,

My transfer was mainly because of my supervisor who started working at another university, so asked me to follow him if I am fine with that. After that, I transferred to another university.

I am not sure about your situation. I think you need to talk to your school. If it is possible, probably you need to find a school, get an offer and then transfer.

Thank you

sah10406
Diamond Member
Posts: 2616
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:09 am

Re: Tier 4 - transferring to another university

Post by sah10406 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:49 am

Sangwan wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:43 pm
I want to get transferred from my current university to another university because of my personal problems. So, I am little bit confused about can I change or get transferred in another university while in UK and what would be the procedure for that if possible.
If you are a PhD student, see the information above in this topic.

If you are not a PhD student, see this recent topic about the matter:
uk-tier-4-student-visas/changing-course ... 99680.html
I do not give immigration advice. I refer you to Immigration Rules, guidance, other online content and to your sponsor.

Sangwan
Newly Registered
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:51 am
Mood:
India

Re: Tier 4 - transferring to another university

Post by Sangwan » Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:18 am

Thank you for your reply. But I still do not understand. I am undergraduate student and university is far from my house it took me 6 hours for up and down because of this I do not get time for studies. I am very serious about my studies. And my friends are in other university who could help me in my studies and it would be convenience for me if I change my university. So, please tell me can I change the university from my university A to university B? I will be thankful to you.

sah10406
Diamond Member
Posts: 2616
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:09 am

Re: Tier 4 - transferring to another university

Post by sah10406 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:30 am

Sangwan wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:18 am
I am undergraduate student and university is far from my house it took me 6 hours for up and down because of this I do not get time for studies. I am very serious about my studies. And my friends are in other university who could help me in my studies and it would be convenience for me if I change my university.
Surely all university students are doing Distance Learning right now anyway, and probably for the rest of this academic year, due to the Coronavirus outbreak?

For the next academic year, I advise you move to the same town or city where the university is located.

If you want to move to a new university, you will need to apply for a new Tier 4 visa in your home country. See the other topic for details. However, again it is impossible right now due to the Coronavirus outbreak.
I do not give immigration advice. I refer you to Immigration Rules, guidance, other online content and to your sponsor.

Post Reply
cron