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Tier 5 Curtailment Letter

Only for UK Tier 5 (Temporary work) points system
Also includes the Youth Mobility Scheme Tier 5

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Heath40
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Tier 5 Creative Sponsorship curtailments

Post by Heath40 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:22 pm

Hello,

I have never posted here before, but this seems like the only place where sensible and helpful answers can be found.

I post on behalf of my partner who is a Zimbabwean national and has been in the U.K. on and off for the last 12 years as a performer and musician. In May my partner applied for his visa from the U.K. and was given a visa for a year, plus BRP and NI number. For the last 5 years he has had the same sponsor, but in August the sponsor’s license was revoked due to a number of issues around record keeping etc - nothing to do with my partner. Since then we have found a new Tier 5 sponsor for him who has issued a new CoS, although we are yet to receive the curtailment letter. In the meantime we have looked at how to apply for another visa (even though he just got one in May) but cannot work out how to go about it. The big question is, does he need to leave the UK to reapply - which for us would be worst case scenario given the costs involved and the risk of not getting it - or can he reapply from within the U.K.? We phoned the HO helpline twice and had conflicting answers. One said he definitely had to leave; the other said he can apply to extend? We were also advised to send a letter and explain the situation to the HO, which we have done, but are yet to hear anything. If anyone can help us we would be eternally grateful as we feel we are going round in circles.

The Station Agent
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Re: Tier 5 Creative Sponsorship curtailments

Post by The Station Agent » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:57 pm

He can apply to extend/vary his current status. He would need the new CoS, as he has to quote the 11-digit CoS number on the application. He does not have to go back to Zimbabwe.

His sponsor should know all this and should be more forthcoming with information.

Heath40
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Re: Tier 5 Creative Sponsorship curtailments

Post by Heath40 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:52 pm

Thank you so much for replying.

His new sponsor (who has been operating as one for a number of years and is extremely established) did not seem to know as she had not dealt with a transfer of sponsorship before, just new people applying from outside the UK. She used the sponsor helpline but received no replies, despite contacting them twice. We tried to extend his current visa, but got stuck because it kept saying that if you have a new sponsor, you need a new visa, and to get a new visa you have to apply from outside the UK. It is reassuring to hear you say that he can apply from the UK. We are waiting for his curtailment letter still...can we try to apply again now, or do we have to wait until he has that in his hand?

The Station Agent
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Re: Tier 5 Creative Sponsorship curtailments

Post by The Station Agent » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:53 am

I've never done this as I don't ever do in-country applications but it stands to reason that someone would be able to switch sponsor in the UK without having to go to their home country and apply for a new visa. Surely this happens in tier 2 all the time. (Tier 2 is mainstream jobs like banking, doctors, nurses, and so on).

However, I've just looked at the tier 5 rules and been reminded that you can't EXTEND in-country for a different sponsor. So call the Home Office back and say it's not an extension it's simply moving from one sponsor to another, and see what they say. Their website is hopeless on this subject.

Heath40
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Re: Tier 5 Creative Sponsorship curtailments

Post by Heath40 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:52 am

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. It is such a horrible, lonely place to be when immigration problems arise, but knowing there are people out there who are willing to help others is wonderful. I hope to be able to do the same for someone else one day.

Yes, Tier 5 is a complicated system which does not seem to follow the rules of other tiers. We phoned the Home Office twice, but had conflicting answers, so I am not sure that even they know.

Do you know if there is a route we can follow which might get us a clearer answer, other than the helpline which is frustratingly complicated and vague? You're right when you say that this is technically not an extension. He was already granted a visa in May, lasting 12 months. It also isn't a switch as he is not switching tiers. It is simply a transfer. I believe there used to be provision for this under UKBA, but things change so rapidly and seemingly innocuous tweaks to policy guidance are actually huge. For example, at one point in a 'version' not so long ago it appears that the guidance on 'what happens if your sponsor has his license revoked' stated that you would have 60 days (or less if less left on your visa) to either leave the Uk or find a new sponsor. Now it does not mention finding a new sponsor, just that you 'may wish to make a further application for leave during this time.' However, it does not tell us how to make the application in these sorts of circumstances. I cannot find a form anywhere which would allow him to state his case and there is no email address. As I said, we have sent a letter, but have had no response at all. He does not want to be an over-stayer in any way. He has always abided by the restrictions of his visa and has respected the immigration rules of the UK. We just want to make sure we handle this in the correct way.

The Station Agent
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Re: Tier 5 Creative Sponsorship curtailments

Post by The Station Agent » Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:36 am

Call the Helpline back, telling them your man is moving sponsor within Tier 5 (creative) and you want to know what to do. There must be something you have to do, so ask what it is. If they sound unsure allow them to look into it; but don't allow them to guess. If it sounds like they're guessing ask to speak to their supervisor.

The UKVI website is lamentably unclear on this. It seems to suggest you "have to apply" but doesn't say how. The visa form for this tier is only available to those applying from outside the UK.

Heath40
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Zimbabwe

Re: Tier 5 Creative Sponsorship curtailments

Post by Heath40 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:49 am

Thank you 'The Station Agent.' You have been wonderful. We actually spoke to an immigration advisor yesterday, one we got from the gov.uk website (we didn't even know this service existed!) who is regulated by OISC. To be honest, he was also unclear, but did give us a little more hope that this is a grey area and could result in him being able to apply within the UK. I will update this forum when we know more, just in case anyone else has found themselves in a similar situation.

Heath40
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Tier 5 Curtailment Letter

Post by Heath40 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:37 pm

Does anyone else have experience of getting a curtailment letter? My partner’s sponsor received a sponsor license revocation in August. We wrote to the Home Office straight away to request a curtailment letter and to ask what to do next. They wrote back a month later saying they do not issue curtailment letters on an ad hoc basis and to wait for the letter which we should be assured will come in due course. It is now February and he has still not had anything. His visa expires in May anyway so he will be heading back to Zimbabwe then to apply for a new one - but will the fact that he hasn’t had an official letter yet have any bearing on him being able to get a new visa?? He has a new sponsor.

Frontier Mole
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Re: Tier 5 Curtailment Letter

Post by Frontier Mole » Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:27 am

What type of Tier 5 visa does he have?

Heath40
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Re: Tier 5 Curtailment Letter

Post by Heath40 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:32 am

It’s a tier 5 creative visa. He extended for a year in May last year and was granted it along with a NI number etc. His sponsor had actually been visited by the HO in April. Revocation was issued in August to the sponsor but we have had nothing despite immediately writing to them to request a curtailment letter. They just wrote back a month later saying we had to wait for one! It’s now Feb!! His visa runs out in May anyway! Please advise if you can. I would be so grateful.

Frontier Mole
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Re: Tier 5 Curtailment Letter

Post by Frontier Mole » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:14 am

The curtailment process takes a good deal of time, in essence it is under resourced, unless there is some other reason say collusion or criminality then it may take months to receive the letter. There is a large back log of cases.
As long as the Home Office has your current address then that is all you are obligated to do. It is just a waiting game.
Can I ask why you were keen to receive the letter? Or is it just to make sure he is not overstaying?

Heath40
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Re: Tier 5 Curtailment Letter

Post by Heath40 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:22 am

Yes - we just wanted to make sure we didn’t put a foot wrong!!! He has an unblemished immigration history of 13 years on and off so didn’t want this to cause a problem for future visa applications. I assume he can go ahead and apply for a new one without having had the letter?? By the way - thank you so much for replying!

Frontier Mole
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Re: Tier 5 Curtailment Letter

Post by Frontier Mole » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:48 am

Can’t see it being a problem going forward. He will have a marker showing that he was curtailed and it was due to Sponsor revocation. That can not be helped. Expect to be interviewed at the next visa application as they will want to ensure he is not part of the reason for the revocation. Makes sure he is not guiltily by association type of check.

Heath40
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Re: Tier 5 Curtailment Letter

Post by Heath40 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:46 pm

Thank you Frontier Mole. Do you have any idea what they might be likely to ask or want to see? Just want to make sure he is fully prepared!!

Frontier Mole
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Re: Tier 5 Curtailment Letter

Post by Frontier Mole » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:04 pm

You can not readily second guess what they will ask. They will want to know the last date he worked for the sponsor and perhaps an explanation of how he became associated. This assumes he was performing in his own right or part of a group.
If there is a management company in between him and the Sponsor just say how it is.

Heath40
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Re: Tier 5 Curtailment Letter

Post by Heath40 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:57 pm

Ok, thank you so much. One last question - thank you so much for all you’re help. He carried on working regardless of the sponsor revocation because he was never given any communication from the Home Office to even say that his sponsor had lost his license. He is a musician and does workshops including some major festiVal’s. Was this a bad idea? Will it look bad if he says he carried on working? We basically just carried on whilst waiting for the letter to curtail his leave. We didn’t know what else to do as he needed to earn money to send home still.

Frontier Mole
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Re: Tier 5 Curtailment Letter

Post by Frontier Mole » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:28 am

Not looking good because of the continued working.. especially as he knew the Sponsor had lost their licence. So that points to an immediate concern that can readily lead to a refusal at the next visa application.
I would not be surprised if the next Tier 5 visa is refused. At best a 50/50 chance of it being granted.
What was the reason that lead to the Sponsor being revoked? That will have an influence on his next application, if he was part of the reason or benefited from the wrong doing that lead to the revocation it is a non starter in my opinion to even consider another T5 application.

Heath40
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Re: Tier 5 Curtailment Letter

Post by Heath40 » Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:51 am

Hi Frontier Mole,

He wasn’t implicated in the reason for the refusal as far as I can tell. He has had no communication whatsoever from the HO, despite us phoning many times and then immediately requesting a curtailment letter so he could go back to his home country and reapply with a new sponsor. They told us to wait for the curtailment letter in due course. He only knows about the revocation because his sponsor told him, but is the onus on the sponsor to inform the immigrant and tell them to stop working? We assumed that would come as the curtailment letter. He only does a few workshops here and there - and he runs a choir every week. I really thought we’d done everything right and that until we heard from the HO we just had to carry on as normal. To be honest we were expecting the curtailment letter within a few days of the sponsor receiving his. I’m obviously extremely worried by this Frontier Mole. Do you have any advice as to what we should do? I am able to support my partner on my wages alone as I am a deputy Headteacher. Should he just stop working altogether until he returns in May? Should he return now? I’m so sorry - you have been an amazing help - but of you could advise I’d be so grateful.

Frontier Mole
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Re: Tier 5 Curtailment Letter

Post by Frontier Mole » Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:59 am

I am guessing here but was / is his employer a religious organisation?
The onus is for both Sponsor and the sponsored employee to ensure they meet their respective duties and visa conditions. The Sponsor is advised that they are no longer able to sponsor workers and at that point they are expected to terminate employment- there is an argument that until the HO curtails the visa the employee is able to work. The HO do not entertain that argument.

I am pretty confident from the information given that there is a very good chance the reason for the revocation will relate to the use of Tier 5 CHarity Workers or Creative Artists - you have described a known abuse route that is prevalent within religious organisations- hence my guess above.

Unless the Sponsor actually shows the revocation letter your partner will have no knowledge if he is implicated or not. If he is directly mentioned as part of the reason for revocation then that will have an impact going forward. Getting the letter is a good step to take

As for not working/ return home etc... you can’t turn the clock back. Suggest he plans to return before current expiry date and seeks a new Sponsor but manage expectations and prepare for a possible refusal.

Heath40
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Re: Tier 5 Curtailment Letter

Post by Heath40 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:17 am

Hi Frontier Mole. He is Tier 5 Creative and his sponsor lost his license because of paperwork irregularities and a grey area over what constitutes ‘performance’ which a lot of musicians are experiencing - Peter Gabriel had the same problem bringing people here to play at WOMAD as the HO said that African music could be performed by British workers. He has since gained a new sponsor who is willing to sponsor him and she is happy that he meets all the criteria. I phoned a couple of solicitors yesterday and they have clarified that he can continue to work until he receives a curtailment letter but that this cannot be with a new sponsor - ie although his sponsor has lost his license he can still link to him; he cannot just replace with a new one and carry on. It is such a grey area and there is very little information out there. You’d think that as soon as the license revocation letter is posted that the curtailment is posted at the same time, which we were fully expecting, but clearly not! My partner’s visa expires in May anyway and he will return well before that day as he has done for the past 13 years. If the curtailment letter comes before then he will go immediately. We are also writing to the HO this week to again remind them that he is awaiting the letter and that he is keen to remain above the law in every way. We don’t want to get anything wrong as we also want to marry next year (a new set of visa hurdles to jump through!!) Thank you so much for all your help.

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