No Sehengen visa required for EEA Residence Card holders

tensailee · Post by **tensailee** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:59 pm

http://www.europa.eu/scadplus/leg/en/lvb/l33152.htm

A friend of mine (non-EEA) just went for a holiday with her Spanish husband in Spain. She holds a Residence Card based on her marriage to an EEA national whom lives in the UK. She did not apply for a Schengen visa, and all she had with her was her passport and the printout of the above document in both English and Spanish (just in case).

She got successfully admitted at a Spanish airport!!

Reading the summary of the Directive 2004/38/EC above, it states clearly that:

'Right to move and right of residence for up to three months

....Family members who do not have the nationality of a Member State enjoy the same rights as the citizen who they have accompanied. They may be subject to a short-stay visa requirement under Regulation (EC) No 539/2001. Residence permits will be deemed equivalent to short-stay visas.'....

How could I have not noticed this? Why did I keep applying for Schengen visas when I didn't need to? Or, are there any hidden catches? Is this a general case for all countries implemented this Directive?

Will appreciate your opinion.

British · Post by **British** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:38 am

I guess this directive is not really being practised well across the Union.

I have read somewhere that Belgium, Italy, Finland and Luxembourg have informed the Commission that they will not meet the transposition deadline (30 April 2006). I am not sure what the status is now, but i would not be surprised if they still have not accepted the directive.

So going by these developments, i think most of the Union members may continue to impose the normal visa requirements on family members of Union member citizens.

I have even heard that some of the EU member countries even insist on asking the EU citizen's family member for the regular sort of documentation like bank statements, etc. even though they are not supposed to be asked for these additional evidences. They are supposed to be issued short stay visas by suppliying minimal documentation like spouse (EU citizen) passport and possibly their marraige certificate, etc which are reasonable.

So, leave alone visa-free travel for short durations,

the families will have to supply loads of documents, just like anybody else, to get schenghan visa.

I really don't think that the EU is really a union at all in the practical sense

- i.e. since there is no real freedom of letting Union member country citizen's family to travel with them with minimal documentaion, etc.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 7:04 am

tensailee wrote:A friend of mine (non-EEA) just went for a holiday with her Spanish husband in Spain. She holds a Residence Card based on her marriage to an EEA national whom lives in the UK. She did not apply for a Schengen visa, and all she had with her was her passport and the printout of the above document in both English and Spanish (just in case).

She got successfully admitted at a Spanish airport!!

Very good! This was the intent of Directive 2004/38/EC. I am glad she carried the english and spanish printouts. I would also suggest she (next time) carry the text of the Directive itself in the various languages.

Did she have any problems from the airline before boarding the plane?
How long did it take to clear immigration in Spain?

tensailee wrote:How could I have not noticed this? Why did I keep applying for Schengen visas when I didn't need to? Or, are there any hidden catches? Is this a general case for all countries implemented this Directive?

Most embassies claim you still need EU family visas. So it is not 100% clear cut, and you will likely have to expect some hassle from border guards. It is always worth carrying the local 24hr emergency consular phone number for the embassy of the EU citizen, to be able to crank up the pressure if things get stalled.

The UK has carefully written it's implementing law to say that the Residence Card must have been issued by themselves. Ireland as well. They both refer to "the Residence Card [that they issue]" rather than "a Residence Card" issued by a member state.

The good thing is that all member states are required by the Directive to not turn back family members at the border when they do not have exactly right documentation. So this is always a fallback option if they decide to not accept the Residence Card in your passport. Remember to always carry a copy of your marriage certificate, along with the normal stuff.

Docterror · Post by **Docterror** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:26 am

British wrote:I have read somewhere that Belgium, Italy, Finland and Luxembourg have informed the Commission that they will not meet the transposition deadline (30 April 2006).

True, but it does not mean that the countries who could not meet the transposition deadline did not have to implement it. All it meant was that in such cases, the Directive2004/38/EC itself took over as the source of freedom of movement for the EEA nationals and their family members rather than the national law that was supposed to be derived from the Directive.

i think most of the Union members may continue to impose the normal visa requirements on family members of Union member citizens

.

I have even heard that some of the EU member countries even insist on asking the EU citizen's family member for the regular sort of documentation like bank statements, etc. even though they are not supposed to be asked for these additional evidences

If normal visa requirements are being asked, challenge the country that asked for them and you should surely emerge the victor as the right of entry to a Member State granted to you under the Directive is brutally clear, while the requirement of not needing the visa if you have a Residence Permit is not.

I really don't think that the EU is really a union at all in the practical sense

There are various differences even between the various states of the US. And it is these differences between different countries of the EEA along with the relative embryonic stage of the EU which is leading to all these disparities. Just give a few more decades and hopefully we should be able to turn into an economic bloc that could rival and surpass the US in all the facets.

tensailee wrote:Residence permits will be deemed equivalent to short-stay visas.'....

Why did I keep applying for Schengen visas when I didn't need to? Or, are there any hidden catches? Is this a general case for all countries implemented this Directive?

Did we not have a discussion of similar nature in the last few days? Pls see this link about the discussion before you post any further queries. It takes a lot of patience to sit and write over and over again in under a week about how the lack of an "article" in front of the Article regarding the Residence Permit is creating such a load of confusion between the Member States.

tensailee · Post by **tensailee** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 11:50 am

Thanks for all your input.

Update:
Apparently this wasn't the first time she's done it... She's been to Spain once before without a Schengen visa. Her husband queued with her in the NON-EU passport control, and showed the IO both their passports with a decisive: "This is my wife! (in Spanish)" The IO looked at them and the Residence Card, said: "You should apply for a Schengen Visa next time." and then let them pass. The same happened in Italy. They are planning to go to some nordic countries this summer, and we'll see how it goes then!

Post by **JAJ** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:19 pm

Docterror wrote: There are various differences even between the various states of the US. And it is these differences between different countries of the EEA along with the relative embryonic stage of the EU which is leading to all these disparities. Just give a few more decades and hopefully we should be able to turn into an economic bloc that could rival and surpass the US in all the facets.

Who's "we"? Most citizens of EU member states do not want to be part of a country called Europe. Not even the French and the Dutch, it seems.

Docterror · Post by **Docterror** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 7:27 pm

Who's "we"? Most citizens of EU member states do not want to be part of a country called Europe. Not even the French and the Dutch, it seems.

Most citizens of most old member states do not want to be a part of "Europe" and even amongst them, a Catalan or Basque would rather die than hoist a spanish flag. A lot of it stems from having different cultures and mindsets formed by centuries of traditions. This should be an obstacle in forming a powerful Europe... something the US did not have to face when it was being formed.

A lot of it depends on how the EU and MEPs tackles the problem and succeed in uniting Europe inspite of the diversities. If it succeeds in becoming a powerful economic bloc, I really do not think that the future generations will really complain all that much.

Dawie · Post by **Dawie** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:30 pm

a Catalan or Basque would rather die than hoist a spanish flag

Not that we're totally immune to that over here. I know many Scots who would rather set their hair on fire than hoist a Union Jack flag.

Docterror · Post by **Docterror** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:48 pm

Not that we're totally immune to that over here. I know many Scots who would rather set their hair on fire than hoist a Union Jack flag.

Everyone here knows that, me thinks... atleast I do. I just used a varied example, thats all.

Dawie · Post by **Dawie** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:32 pm

Most citizens of EU member states do not want to be part of a country called Europe. Not even the French and the Dutch, it seems.

The Economist and various other interesting political newspapers have often commented that the French and Dutch referendums were not so much a referendum on a European constitution, than they were on the national governments of the day. I think it's truer to say that European citizens are more disillusioned with their own national governments than they are with the European project and want them sorted out first before worrying about European intergration. But that certainly doesn't mean that European citizens no longer want to be part of a united Europe.

SoloOl · Post by **SoloOl** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:34 pm

OHHHHHHHHHHH!
I am a Russian national, and my husband is Italian and I hold a new UK Residence Permit , Type of doc: Residence card of a Family member of an EEA National. â€œIn compliance with the EU Directive nr. 2004/38/CE holders of the above mentioned UK Residence Documentation do not need any visa to travel around the countries belonging to the Schengen territory for a maximum period of 3 months in one semesterâ€

brownbonno · Post by **brownbonno** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:35 pm

It is clear breach of your free movement right
8

Article 5 of Directive 2004/38, â€˜Right of entryâ€™, states:
â€˜1. Without prejudice to the provisions on travel documents applicable to national border controls, Member States shall grant Union citizens leave to enter their territory with a valid identity card or passport and shall grant family members who are not nationals of a Member State leave to enter their territory with a valid passport.
â€¦
2. Family members who are not nationals of a Member State shall only be required to have an entry visa in accordance with Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 or, where appropriate, with national law. For the purposes of this Directive, possession of the valid residence card referred to in Article 10 shall exempt such family members from the visa requirement.

You can seek a redress from a Spanish court.

SoloOl · Post by **SoloOl** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:23 pm

I will try to do my best in it...

SoloOl · Post by **SoloOl** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:07 pm

So I've been to Spanish cons today.
I went to the reception and show the letter from Italian cons saying everything about this Directive. The receptionist said "Oh, this is the info from Italians so you can go only there".
Me:"There is a Directive made by the EU not by Italians" and show to him the info from the Spanish cos web site in Ireland confirming that as well. He called the lady who's dealing with visas. She said "It's so confusing this info we still need time to go in to it". Then I show my passport with the deportation stamp and said that a friend of mine has being traveling to Spain and never had any troubles. And That I've contacted the European Commission and they were fully on my side.
She apologized and gave me a Schengen visa traight away.

I can't say anything - they being nice to me in London but I still want a compensation for my flights, holidays taken and all this story. I'm not going to give up, just need to find a good lawyer to deal with my human rights:)))

Fairtrade · Post by **Fairtrade** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:29 pm

Great news!

Don't give up, take it futher and demand they pay for everything, hotels, flights and inconvenience. If you are going to give up they will just continue being ignorant, they know the law exactly but I get the feeling they are just playing stupid. If everyone start sueing them they will have to start paying out and sooner or later they will learn their lesson and stop refusing couples with European partners to travel visa free like the European Directive entitles you to!

We need more people to stand up for their rights!

Good luck and take it futher and demand the maximum from them!! An excuse is not good enough after you have been humiliated, deported and the lost of cost for flights and hotels.

SoloOl · Post by **SoloOl** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:45 pm

The problem is that it's being already about 10 lawyers I've contacted, who said to me they are not dealing with this sort of cases

I will wait for the formal answer from the European Commission, may be they will advise me.

ciaramc · Post by **ciaramc** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:46 pm

Solo O1 you should get in contact with SOLVIT....drop them an email....or call them....they are a great help when the rights of EU citizens have been violated....

SoloOl · Post by **SoloOl** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:34 am

Solvit advised me to contact the European Commission and the Eur.Commission advised me to contact Solvit...

??????????????????????????????????????????????????

charles4u · Post by **charles4u** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:35 am

Hello all, I am married to a Romanian and she works in the UK and I wanted to join her there but I was refused the visa saying we met too soon to get married according to the consular officer and just bringing out things just for her reason to refuse like the phone call bills of the calls we made b4 meeting..

So am still staying in Romania but she is in the UK, we dont know what to do, we thinking of her cancelling her contract so we can go somewhere else maybe Netherlands, but the problem is that she signed to work for the company for 2 yrs..

Can anybody advice me on what I and my wife can do cus we just dont know what to do....UK and IRELAND is so much too proud and makes things worst even messing with the EU law that says a Family member with a FAMILY RESIDENCE CARD can travel with the spouse to any EU country if accompany or joining the spouse.

Pls I need a serious advise.

ribena · Post by **ribena** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:43 pm

Hi all
I would like to know if we can stay (longer than 3 months) in another EU Country (other than UK) with the residence card issued in the UK.

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:02 pm

ribena wrote:Hi all
I would like to know if we can stay (longer than 3 months) in another EU Country (other than UK) with the residence card issued in the UK.

Quite possibly, but you've not provided enough information.

Why not start a new thread?

ribena · Post by **ribena** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:08 am

I was hesitant to open another thread coz this seems like more or else the same query.

I am non EEA National married to a Dutch living in UK at the mo.

Just in case if we need to go back to Holland as our permanent home( don't know if that will happen, but 'if' / just in case) can we move back with the Residence Card issued to me in UK?

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:18 am

ribena wrote:I was hesitant to open another thread coz this seems like more or else the same query.

I am non EEA National married to a Dutch living in UK at the mo.

Just in case if we need to go back to Holland as our permanent home( don't know if that will happen, but 'if' / just in case) can we move back with the Residence Card issued to me in UK?

If your Dutch spouse has been engaging in economic activity in the UK, then you are both entitled to enter and reside in Holland for longer than 3 months, if your spouse engages in economic activity in Holland.

ECJ ruling on Singh.

Majeztic · Post by **Majeztic** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:46 pm

I am currently in Germany,non-Eu married to a German/Romanian citizen,I entered with the Romanian family member card.I have a contract plus a work permit to work in Germany,But I did not apply for the national visa from the german embassy in Romania,instead I came with the family card,will this cause me problems when I go to the immigration.I posted a topic about this before.Benifa

any views? will be much appriciated

Majeztic · Post by **Majeztic** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:48 pm

this was the thread:

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=39428

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

No Sehengen visa required for EEA Residence Card holders

No Sehengen visa required for EEA Residence Card holders

Re: No Sehengen visa required for EEA Residence Card holders