Schengen visa for family member of EU citizen (German)

Directive/2004/38/EC · Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:00 pm

tina79,

Were you working in the UK and you husband was living with you there?

tina79 · Post by **tina79** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:22 am

ı was workıng ın UK and he was ın Turkey that tıme. we are both in Turkey now, but as I said, my perm res is still in Slovakia....so theoreticky they do not know that i live in Turkey now.....as im still registered in my home address.

Jambo · Post by **Jambo** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:25 am

tina79 wrote:sorry. we live in Turkey and we are applying for im in my embassy - Slovak.

my perm res is still in Slovakia.

In general, member state can impose different rules to their own citizens and the freedom of movement doesn't apply to them (there are exceptions for example if you and your husband were living in another EEA country while you were working).

But nothing stops you from flying to Austria for example and then get to Slovakia. In this case, you can apply to the Austrian embassy and the visa would be free.

tina79 · Post by **tina79** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:30 am

we are alwasy flying to Vienna as we do not have direct flight to Bratislava.

I just dont understand why it would be now different if we I live here with him. Im not turkish citizen yet.

Why I we have to pay and give them 200 docs about my husband. First time when he got it we ask if he will get a new one if it will expire even If i will live here and the lady on the embassy said YES.....i checked the law and regulation, nothing has changed so far....

Jambo · Post by **Jambo** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:47 am

It is different as Turkey is not part of the EEA and the UK is and different rules apply depending if freedom of movement apply or not.

But if you fly to Vienna why bother dealing with the Slovak embassy? Apply through the Austrian embassy and it would be free (and not 200 documents to provide).

tina79 · Post by **tina79** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:37 am

i understand what you saying, but still the question is, he is married to a EEA citizen, so why this hassle about this. on the website it says, either joinging the partner or travel with him/her.....i dont think it is matter that I live in turkey now. i have a brother living in Prague, so if I can even say that i live there temp....what does it make different, they dont check my temp undress. when i lived in UK they did not check it either.

just cannt get it..sorry.

Jambo · Post by **Jambo** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:58 am

tina79 wrote:i understand what you saying, but still the question is, he is married to a EEA citizen, so why this hassle about this.

The Slovak authorities don't see you as a EEA national but as a Slovak national. If you were French, then the Slovak authorities would need to treat you as EEA national.

on the website it says, either joinging the partner or travel with him/her.....

Which website? This is true to all EEA countries apart from the one your are citizen of.

i dont think it is matter that I live in turkey now. i have a brother living in Prague, so if I can even say that i live there temp....what does it make different, they dont check my temp undress. when i lived in UK they did not check it either.
just cannt get it..sorry.

I believe you got lucky last time. They should have charged your husband last time and they should have asked for proof of your work in the UK (it's not just where you are registered. You need to provide proof of working in another country if you wish to be treated as EEA national in your own country).

tina79 · Post by **tina79** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:09 am

http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/04 ... u-citizen/

ok i undrestand this, but this is not a family permit.....so just because i do not live in EU country my husband will have to provide all the documents and pay for it? and if i he applies thorugh Austrian it will be free of charge?

i worked and lived in UK over 10years and it saThe visa applicant will be travelling with, or joining, the EU citizen for a visit or permanent move to an EU member state. (If they are going to the “home” country of the EU citizen, then there can be a requirement that the EU citizen had previously lived/worked in a different member state)

so he is still titel to have it free of charge without 200 docs no?

sorry for this but im a bit confused about this all...

Jambo · Post by **Jambo** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:56 am

And that is exactly what I say as you are travelling to your "home" country the "home" country can impose restriction on the visa (unless you worked in another country together with your family member. The website is missing this requirement).

But just apply through the Austrian embassy (as you fly to Vienna any way) and it would be free and no 200 documents required (just need marriage certificate).

tina79 · Post by **tina79** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:43 am

thanks for the advice. will try.

but first time when we applied they did not ask me to prove that i live or work in UK.....they asked my ID and my slovakian home address and he got it for free with only 2 docs attached ( marriage cert + flight ticket). strange.

sum1 · Post by **sum1** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:13 pm

evil_grrrl666 wrote:In the German version the wording uses a verb that means "to make easy" which of course I specifically refer to

.

Well, facilitate is probably best translated as 'erleichtern' and vice versa although 'every facility' is more than just 'making it easy'. What I still keep wondering is why the 'join' in the Directive is translated (or is it the other way? Is there an authoritative language version?) into 'nachziehen' instead of the more obvious (to me) 'nachfolgen'. The former suggests to me 'relocate for the purpose to live with (the EEA national)'.

Directive/2004/38/EC · Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:33 pm

sum1 wrote:
evil_grrrl666 wrote:In the German version the wording uses a verb that means "to make easy" which of course I specifically refer to
.
Well, facilitate is probably best translated as 'erleichtern' and vice versa although 'every facility' is more than just 'making it easy'. What I still keep wondering is why the 'join' in the Directive is translated (or is it the other way? Is there an authoritative language version?) into 'nachziehen' instead of the more obvious (to me) 'nachfolgen'. The former suggests to me 'relocate for the purpose to live with (the EEA national)'.

There is a former thread where ca.funke said almost exactly the same thing. You twins?

Directive/2004/38/EC · Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:43 pm

tina79 wrote:i understand what you saying, but still the question is, he is married to a EEA citizen, so why this hassle about this. on the website it says, either joinging the partner or travel with him/her.....i dont think it is matter that I live in turkey now. i have a brother living in Prague, so if I can even say that i live there temp....what does it make different, they dont check my temp undress. when i lived in UK they did not check it either.

just cannt get it..sorry.

No problem. Let me try to explain.

Imagine you are from Slovakia. You have never been to any other European country. But you fly off to Canada to work, marry somebody, but then eventually both decide to return to Slovakia. In this case you have still never been to another EU member state. So traditional Slovakian immigration law applies to the entry of your husband.

But if instead of Canada you moved to the UK to work, then EU free movement law applies to you in the UK and also when/if you wish to return to Slovakia. See Singh: http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/04 ... ional-law/

Now your case is a little more complicated. You married your husband after you left the UK, but you were involved with him before you left the UK.

Your job now is to understand your situation, and to explain it and educate the Slovakian visa staff at the embassy.

Or to choose another embassy, such as the Austrian embassy, at which to make the application. To them, since you are not Austrian, the very standard visa rules outlined in http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/04 ... u-citizen/ apply.

Since you typically fly to Austria, that is a very natural place to apply.

Does this make a little more sense?

tina79 · Post by **tina79** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:15 am

hi. yes i understand..but here is still a question ( sorry for this im pregnant and my brain and hormones are mixed now)

so, i lived in UK, we got married while i was in UK. after 1 year trying to get my husband EEA family member permit with no success we decided to live in Turkey. so I moved over here in May.....

now, as i lived in UK before, what means I have exercised my treaty rights in another EU country, even now that im here with him in Turkey, the rules are apply or not? Does still need to provide all the docs for schengen visa or is it enough for him to give only the basic....

my undrstand was that if a none EEA is married to a EEA national, does not matter if they live in a none EEA country, they can obtain supous visa (schengen, family member) based on their genue married...or am I totaly wrong?

sum1 · Post by **sum1** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:36 am

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
sum1 wrote:
evil_grrrl666 wrote:In the German version the wording uses a verb that means "to make easy" which of course I specifically refer to
.
Well, facilitate is probably best translated as 'erleichtern' and vice versa although 'every facility' is more than just 'making it easy'. What I still keep wondering is why the 'join' in the Directive is translated (or is it the other way? Is there an authoritative language version?) into 'nachziehen' instead of the more obvious (to me) 'nachfolgen'. The former suggests to me 'relocate for the purpose to live with (the EEA national)'.
There is a former thread where ca.funke said almost exactly the same thing. You twins?

Yes. I am the evil one :-)

But seriously, such differences just stick out and it's not hard to spot them with a little bit of scrutiny.

Jambo · Post by **Jambo** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:41 am

tina79 wrote:hi. yes i understand..but here is still a question ( sorry for this im pregnant and my brain and hormones are mixed now)

so, i lived in UK, we got married while i was in UK. after 1 year trying to get my husband EEA family member permit with no success we decided to live in Turkey. so I moved over here in May.....

now, as i lived in UK before, what means I have exercised my treaty rights in another EU country, even now that im here with him in Turkey, the rules are apply or not? Does still need to provide all the docs for schengen visa or is it enough for him to give only the basic....

my undrstand was that if a none EEA is married to a EEA national, does not matter if they live in a none EEA country, they can obtain supous visa (schengen, family member) based on their genue married...or am I totaly wrong?

This is always true to all countries apart your home country.

It's true to your home country under certain conditions.

Directive/2004/38/EC · Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:24 pm

sum1 wrote:But seriously, such differences just stick out and it's not hard to spot them with a little bit of scrutiny.

Yea, it is all well and good for you native German speakers! :-)

Directive/2004/38/EC · Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:32 pm

tina79 wrote:so, i lived in UK, we got married while i was in UK. after 1 year trying to get my husband EEA family member permit with no success we decided to live in Turkey. so I moved over here in May.....

now, as i lived in UK before, what means I have exercised my treaty rights in another EU country, even now that im here with him in Turkey, the rules are apply or not? Does still need to provide all the docs for schengen visa or is it enough for him to give only the basic....

my undrstand was that if a none EEA is married to a EEA national, does not matter if they live in a none EEA country, they can obtain supous visa (schengen, family member) based on their genue married...or am I totaly wrong?

You married your husband while in the UK. So at this point EU free movement rules apply also for your families entry to your home member state.

It does not matter if you now live in Turkey, New York, Paris or still in London.

When you apply for a visa, you now only need to fill out the parts of the Schengen application that do not have the (*). When you submit the application, you need to include your passport or ID card, your marriage certificate, and his passport.

That is all if you are applying for Austrian visa (which I would frankly suggest).

If you are applying for a Slovakian visa, your home member state, then you will also have to include a pay slip (or similar proof that you were working in the UK), and a cover letter that mentions the case Surinder Singh (Case C-370/90 The Queen v Immigration Appeal Tribunal et Surinder Singh, ex parte Secretary of State for Home Department) and explains patiently to them that because you were exercising your treaty rights by working in the UK, your husband can enter Slovakia on the basis of EU law.

Let us know how it goes.

ca.funke · Post by **ca.funke** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:33 pm

sum1 wrote:But seriously, such differences just stick out and it's not hard to spot them with a little bit of scrutiny.

Such differences yield totaly different understandings of the law, and lead to totally differing implementations in different member states.

Usually I would wish for an authority that rectifies/clarifies such things quickly and efficiently, however such procedures take >>years and years<< in our beloved EU.

tina79 · Post by **tina79** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:54 pm

thank you Dırectıve. This is what I explained to them that i lived in UK so i have exercises my treaty rights...but my embassy does not understand and do not want to accept it!

we do not want slovakian visa yet. last time we applied we put first country Austria, then slovakia, Hungary, Chechz republic. it was easy and straight forward.

Now the lady says bc I live in turkey with him he has to provide everything!!!!!.....well Im not suppried about my embassy as while i lived in UK they weren't big help either. In fact they caused me trouble instead of help that I had sort out in my home country on the police station!

When I simple asked her what docs he needs to privde for schengen visa, she wrote me back an email with a residence permit law.

i will give a go again and will inform you but honestly very tired of this and cannt understand why people who works on embassies are not aware of regulations?!

merlenee · Post by **merlenee** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:21 pm

I have ILR in UK and my Kids are British citizens.
1)Am i covered by family member of a EU citizen?
2) On the other hand, how easy can i get multiple visas to schengen countries? https://www.rx247.net/.......html

tina79 · Post by **tina79** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:37 pm

Directive, she just wrote me back from the embassy to say that the 2004/38/ec has been ammeded and changed, but she did not tell me with what exactly and when.

Do you know anything about this?!

Jambo · Post by **Jambo** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:16 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote: If you are applying for a Slovakian visa, your home member state, then you will also have to include a pay slip (or similar proof that you were working in the UK), and a cover letter that mentions the case Surinder Singh (Case C-370/90 The Queen v Immigration Appeal Tribunal et Surinder Singh, ex parte Secretary of State for Home Department) and explains patiently to them that because you were exercising your treaty rights by working in the UK, your husband can enter Slovakia on the basis of EU law.

Directive,

But couldn't the Slovak authorities argue this is not a Surinder Singh as the spouse didn't live with the EEA national in the member state when the EEA national exercised treaty right?

Directive/2004/38/EC · Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:34 pm

Jambo wrote:But couldn't the Slovak authorities argue this is not a Surinder Singh as the spouse didn't live with the EEA national in the member state when the EEA national exercised treaty right?

I am sure the Slovaks could argue anything. At this point in time, I am no longer surprised by the arguments that can be raised in even the most simple issues...

I suspect that once the embassy is educated about Singh, they might not even ask if the spouse was co-temporally [at the same time] located in the UK. So that is on the practical side.

Also, they did get married while the EU citizen was exercising their treaty rights in the UK. Even if the UK then broke the law by refusing entry to the spouse, the EU citizen was exercising treaty rights and I do not see why the Singh rights would suddenly fall away.

tina79 · Post by **tina79** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:22 am

Thanks Directive. I have sent them an email explaining to them my husband rights and waiting for them to come back to me.

However I did not mention to them the Shing case as yet as I am waiting for their answer.....

I used to work in the SVK parliament so I am not supprised that people who work on our embassy dont know much of legilsations/law.

Wish us luck and thanks for your help!

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Schengen visa for family member of EU citizen (German)