Sorry, Schengen query. EU citizen with non-EU wife with ILR.

[themightywhites]

I have been really struggling with this one, sincerely hope someone can help like the sage ca.funke and other specialists. Will try to be succinct.

Facts

I am an EU citizen, hold dual nationality UK/Ireland
MY wife is an Indian citizen, has Indefinite leave to remain in the UK (ILR)
We are going to Spain on holiday; we are travelling together
Spanish embassy do not accept postal applications for visas, have to travel 200 miles each way! (If this is relevant my wife has previous Schengen visas from Greek & Spanish embassies but now expired)

Spanish Embassy Edinburgh gave me this reply:

'The exemption of Visa for family members is only in case that

1.- your spouse is travelling with you
2.- your visa states the following :"Family member of an EU/EEA citizen".
If you do not comply with the above two points you need to apply for the Visa.'


(I do not understand what point 2 means)

ASSUMING we need a visa for my wife (and I stand to be corrected), I understand the following is correct:

'(Note that EU citizens do not need a visa to travel anywhere within the Schengen area, and neither do their official family members, i.e. spouses, when in possession of a valid residence permit from a Schengen member country, excluding permits from Ireland or the UK.)'
I think this information came from the Schengen office website

My question is as follows:

If I obtained a Schengen visa for my wife by post from another embassy e.g. Austria, could this still be used for us to travel to Spain. (The reason of course that I want to do it through the post is so that I won't have to take my wife and 2 small children on a long journey, take time off work etc.) Would there be a chance that we could be turned away by border control in Spain or even Ryanair could stop us from boarding a flight to Spain.

Thanks very much, and I would really appreciate your help.

[cobra]

I have been really struggling with this one, sincerely hope someone can help like the sage ca.funke and other specialists. Will try to be succinct.

Facts

I am an EU citizen, hold dual nationality UK/Ireland
MY wife is an Indian citizen, has Indefinite leave to remain in the UK (ILR)
We are going to Spain on holiday; we are travelling together
Spanish embassy do not accept postal applications for visas, have to travel 200 miles each way! (If this is relevant my wife has previous Schengen visas from Greek & Spanish embassies but now expired)

Spanish Embassy Edinburgh gave me this reply:

'The exemption of Visa for family members is only in case that

1.- your spouse is travelling with you
2.- your visa states the following :"Family member of an EU/EEA citizen".
If you do not comply with the above two points you need to apply for the Visa.'


(I do not understand what point 2 means)

ASSUMING we need a visa for my wife (and I stand to be corrected), I understand the following is correct:

'(Note that EU citizens do not need a visa to travel anywhere within the Schengen area, and neither do their official family members, i.e. spouses, when in possession of a valid residence permit from a Schengen member country, excluding permits from Ireland or the UK.)'
I think this information came from the Schengen office website

My question is as follows:

If I obtained a Schengen visa for my wife by post from another embassy e.g. Austria, could this still be used for us to travel to Spain. (The reason of course that I want to do it through the post is so that I won't have to take my wife and 2 small children on a long journey, take time off work etc.) Would there be a chance that we could be turned away by border control in Spain or even Ryanair could stop us from boarding a flight to Spain.

Thanks very much, and I would really appreciate your help.

Obtaining Austria visa, if this is a case then Austria should be your first destination before going to Spain. Austria visa is part of Schengen, you should be fine. Carry the marriage certificate along with you just in case.

[themightywhites]

Thanks cobra. Will take marriage cert. Our first destination and all travel will only be to/in Spain, will Austrian embassy issued visa still be okay?

[ca.funke]

Hi themightywhites, welcome to the forum,

your post triggered me to write this new thread:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 853#589853

I am an EU citizen, hold dual nationality UK/Ireland
MY wife is an Indian citizen, has Indefinite leave to remain in the UK (ILR)

Does your wife´s residence-permit say something about "EEA family member"? If so your case is covered in Part 1) of my other post, otherwise you´re covered in Part 2)

As you are a dual citizen (UK+Irish!), you can always apply for an EEA-permit for your wife. The EEA-permit allows her to stay in the UK, travel EEA-wide and best of all it´s totally free of charge (This is "Part1" in my other post)!

Short summary: You do not need a visa in any case, however travelling without visa may get you stuck since not everybody (border guards, airline staff etc...) knows the regulations well.

About Austria/Spain: Doesn´t matter which visa she applies for, especially since she had several visas before. My wife and me once used an Austrian visa for entry into Italy and later Belgium, never went to Austria with that visa. We were prepared to talk about "our plans changed....bla....bla", but it was just stamped, and that was it...

Rgds and happy travels,
Christian

[Jambo]

ILR is not considered a visa stating "Family member of an EU/EEA citizen".

She can apply for a Residence Card as a family member of EEA citizen but as your wife has ILR, I'm not sure this is worth the effort (sending the needed evidence to the HO and process time which is 2-3 months). It all depends on how many times she will travel in the next few years and if you will travel together or not.

She can apply for a Schengen visa free of charge and as said, it can be to any member state in the Schengen area. It doesn't need to be the country you enter first. It can also be the country you intend to spend the longest period so you can always claim you had plans to go to Austria for two months after Spain but plans have changed. In fact, it is not enforced.

[themightywhites]

Hi themightywhites, welcome to the forum,

your post triggered me to write this new thread:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 853#589853

I am an EU citizen, hold dual nationality UK/Ireland
MY wife is an Indian citizen, has Indefinite leave to remain in the UK (ILR)

Does your wife´s residence-permit say something about "EEA family member"? If so your case is covered in Part 1) of my other post, otherwise you´re covered in Part 2)

As you are a dual citizen (UK+Irish!), you can always apply for an EEA-permit for your wife. The EEA-permit allows her to stay in the UK, travel EEA-wide and best of all it´s totally free of charge (This is "Part1" in my other post)!

Short summary: You do not need a visa in any case, however travelling without visa may get you stuck since not everybody (border guards, airline staff etc...) knows the regulations well.

About Austria/Spain: Doesn´t matter which visa she applies for, especially since she had several visas before. My wife and me once used an Austrian visa for entry into Italy and later Belgium, never went to Austria with that visa. We were prepared to talk about "our plans changed....bla....bla", but it was just stamped, and that was it...

Rgds and happy travels,
Christian

Sorry about the delay in replying. Firstly thank-you very much to Christian and Jambo; we are very grateful that you have taken the time to consider our case and for the quality of advice.

Have shown your posts to my wife and we have discussed it. Her anxiety levels are very high about being turned away by airline staff (Ryanair!) who do not understand the legal position (we will be with our two young children under 5). For this reason we are going to look at
'How to apply for residence documents as the non-EEA family member of an EEA national'. I am going to contact the Home Office (UK) tomorrow to try to get an approx processing time, we travel in 2 months. I understand we have to use form EEA2 (Residence card - non-European family members of EEA or Swiss nationals). Postal applications accepted and its free.

If processing times are too long we are going to 'bite the bullet' and drive 200 miles to the Spanish Consulate for a Schengen visa so my wife is happy.

I really appreciate your help, what great people you are!

[Jambo]

Two months for EEA2 application is probably a wishful thinking (especially if this includes the despatch of the passports back to you).

You can check other members timelines in a dedicated thread here - EEA2 timelines.

[themightywhites]

Two months for EEA2 application is probably a wishful thinking (especially if this includes the despatch of the passports back to you).

You can check other members timelines in a dedicated thread here - EEA2 timelines.

Thanks Jambo, I think you are right, have just been looking

Someone made a request to the UKBA in 2010 under the Freedom of Information Act and the average processing time was 2.7 months so you were spot on in your earlier post.


http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/e ... ssing_time

[ca.funke]

Hi themightywhites,

I´m not particularly firm in UK procedures, but I know that they do not like 2004/38/EC, and somehow wish they never signed this paper.

As such they try to find an excuse NOT to use it, whenever possible.

For you this will mean: Although you are Irish, they might claim that your wife is not eligible for an EEA-permit, since you are also British.

Somewhere in this forum there is detailed info as to why, as a dual-citizen, 2004/38/EC always applies, however I cannot find it right now.

Maybe someone else has the corresponding link?

Good luck with your application - however I cannot see it processed in time for your Spain-trip.

If you decide to travel under >>Part 2<<, please give us your corresponding feedback! You may want to consider contacting both Ryanair and the airport in advance, so they know of your intentions and familiarise themselves with the law.

Good luck!

[themightywhites]

Hi themightywhites,

I´m not particularly firm in UK procedures, but I know that they do not like 2004/38/EC, and somehow wish they never signed this paper.

As such they try to find an excuse NOT to use it, whenever possible.

For you this will mean: Although you are Irish, they might claim that your wife is not eligible for an EEA-permit, since you are also British.

Somewhere in this forum there is detailed info as to why, as a dual-citizen, 2004/38/EC always applies, however I cannot find it right now.

Maybe someone else has the corresponding link?

Good luck with your application - however I cannot see it processed in time for your Spain-trip.

If you decide to travel under >>Part 2<<, please give us your corresponding feedback! You may want to consider contacting both Ryanair and the airport in advance, so they know of your intentions and familiarise themselves with the law.

Good luck!

Thanks very much again Christian. Fully accept that my wife is at liberty to travel with me (under 'Part 2' of your other post), but she is too anxious that we won't get there.

Am going to get Schengen visa from Spanish embassy in Edinburgh, 400 mile round trip!

Will look at EEA-permit when we get back, though this is looking increasingly complicated, 'For you this will mean: Although you are Irish, they might claim that your wife is not eligible for an EEA-permit, since you are also British'.

Thanks again Robert