NHS closes its doors to foreign doctors

[archigabe]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/p ... 321919.ece

From the London Times.

Doctors from India, South Africa and other Commonwealth countries are to be barred from the NHS in an attempt to preserve health service jobs for British graduates.

For generations the health service has been sustained by immigration but yesterday the Home Office moved to end a crisis that has prevented thousands of highly trained British doctors from advancing their careers. Last year the system for selecting doctors for higher training collapsed in what was described as the greatest disaster for medical training in a generation.

The change will end a long tradition of importing doctors to the NHS. Among the 277,000 now registered with the General Medical Council, almost half got their first medical qualifications abroad — the majority from India, Pakistan, South Africa and Australia. Without them the NHS could not have run a service since the 1960s.

Since 1997, however, the number of medical school places in Britain has almost doubled. There are now enough home-grown graduates to fill training posts, reducing or eliminating the need to import doctors.
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Last year many UK-trained doctors were denied initial posts, or won only short-term positions, as 10,000 overseas doctors joined the queue for 20,000 posts. The chairman of the British Medical Association had to resign after writing to The Times to defend the system of applying for training posts, in the face of widespread fury.

The Home Office announced yesterday that, from next month, doctors living outside the European Union will not be eligible to apply for posts through the Highly Skilled Migrants Programme — hitherto an open door to migrants with the right qualification.From April 1, the door will also be closed to migrants from India who are applying under a new points system. So-called Tier 1 migrants — those with the highest qualifications — will be barred from applying for higher medical training posts. Non-EU doctors already in Britain as Highly Skilled Migrants, or those seeking leave to remain as Tier 1 migrants, will still be free to apply.

The new rules are expected to cut the pool of potential applicants by between 3,000 and 5,000 by 2009. But the Government has admitted that this will still not be enough to ensure that all British graduates who are good enough will get posts. Between 700 and 1,100 young doctors will be denied jobs in 2009 and beyond.

[JAJ]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/p ... 321919.ece

From the London Times.

Doctors from India, South Africa and other Commonwealth countries are to be barred from the NHS in an attempt to preserve health service jobs for British graduates.

Not quite "British jobs for British workers" when it's still open to the entire EU.

[Dawie]

What about foreign-trained doctors who have British passports or ancestry visas or other settlement visas? For example, many South Africans have dual citizenship. Does this mean a South African-trained doctor with a British passport who emmigrates to the UK will not be able to work in the NHS? What about doctors who have ancestry visas and therefore do not have to obtain a work permit or HSMP visa?

Is this bar based on where the graduate has been trained or on their immigration status? If it's just based on where the graduate has been trained then why is the Home Office involved? If it's just based on their immigration status then why is the NHS involved?

Doesn't sound like it's been well thought out to me.

[Marco 72]

That's funny, one would have thought the NHS' main concern was that of providing good health care to their customers, not jobs for doctors with a British/EU passport.

[joe777]

yes its very confusing, as some had said, there nothing british about it, it should be european doctors.

from what i can make out its a ban on training for non european doctors. i wonder what it means for my wife, i'm british, my wife is a doctor from outside europe, she has ILR and can apply for naturalization in a couple of months, the govs reason is why should the british taxpayer, i like that part were british now, when its about money, fund training for foreign doctors, well what are the europeans ones then ? if they are not foreign to ?

there nothing on the gmc website, looks a mesh again..

[sakura]

What about foreign-trained doctors who have British passports or ancestry visas or other settlement visas? For example, many South Africans have dual citizenship. Does this mean a South African-trained doctor with a British passport who emmigrates to the UK will not be able to work in the NHS? What about doctors who have ancestry visas and therefore do not have to obtain a work permit or HSMP visa?

Is this bar based on where the graduate has been trained or on their immigration status? If it's just based on where the graduate has been trained then why is the Home Office involved? If it's just based on their immigration status then why is the NHS involved?

Doesn't sound like it's been well thought out to me.

Obviously if you have ILR/BC then you don't have to meet any labour requirements...that should be a given...they can't stop you working in your own country...they still need to take the PLAB, though.

joe777...obvioulsy your wife (and others with her status) is also not going to be affected.

The proposal is not to ban foreign-trained doctors regardless, but to limit those who come to the UK through work permits and the HSMP system. The ancestry visa question is a good one, but if the plan is to put in place (as they have been trying to do thus far) a sort of 'labour market requirement' on NHS posts (as with most other job sectors anyway), then people on all other visas except work permits and HSMP are exempt.

I believe the NHS have to be involved because they are the single largest employer of foreigners in the UK(?)....and they've already been challenged by groups like BAPIO on changes regarding non-EU nationals working in the NHS.

[joe777]

i've got to say its a confusing article, it says

Doctors from India, South Africa and other Commonwealth countries are to be barred from the NHS in an attempt to preserve health service jobs for British graduates.

as far as i know its only concerns specialist training to be a consultant, its not to stop doctors on hsmp coming to work here as SHO (senisor house officer) ??

as it then goes on to say

Last year the system for selecting doctors for higher training collapsed

and

There are now enough home-grown graduates to fill training posts


all to do with training to be a consultant.

but then

doctors living outside the European Union will not be eligible to apply for posts through the Highly Skilled Migrants Programme

living outside the european union, most on hsmp will already be in the uk, and the word post, its it training or working as SHO ??

and a ban on training again is mentioned

From April 1, the door will also be closed to migrants from India who are applying under a new points system. So-called Tier 1 migrants — those with the highest qualifications — will be barred from applying for higher medical training posts

and finally

Non-EU doctors already in Britain as Highly Skilled Migrants, or those seeking leave to remain as Tier 1 migrants, will still be free to apply.

i think its all about training posts ??

[paulp]

You're right on Joe, it's all about "training posts". My, maybe poor, understanding is that promotion is dependent on passing exams through these posts.

[thirdwave]

i think its all about training posts ??

Joe777, they are talking about training posts in this instance but the competition even for non training grades have got significantly stiffer since last year. Many UK grads are out of jobs and I know many who have taken up career grade (non training) posts, which were hitherto shunned by locals. I do not know why the HO is getting involved in this as I thought it was NHS Employers, under the guidance of the DoH, who decided on workforce planning, recruitement etc.

I am not sure if the HO is planning to bar foreign doctors from applying for HSMP? I have checked the HSMP website and there are no updates there to this effect. As you might be aware, most overseas doctors, in training or otherwise, easily qualify for HSMP/Tier 1 and the DoH's plan to bar HSMP holders from applying for training posts on a equal footing with local graduates during the recruitement round in 2007 was successfully challenged in the court of appeal by BAPIO. I do not see these changes causing a massive drop in the number of overseas applicants this year or in 2009 as most people applying for posts are already working in this country and almost all of them are on HSMP. The situation, however, might change if the DoH wins their appeal against the Court of Appeal ruling in the House of Lords ( outcome expected in 05/08 ) but I would be very surprised if they did..