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EEA permanent residence and continuity

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Kitty
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EEA permanent residence and continuity

Post by Kitty » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:34 pm

Does an 18-month gap in work history due to sickness break the continuity of a worker's resindency for PR purposes?

The EEA worker is married and was self-sufficient due to her non-EEA husband's earnings during her illness. However, the "self sufficient" moniker seems risky because of the "health insurance" requirement (albeit that she received NHS treatment).

Will this spoil an EEA3 application based on 5 years' residence "in accordance with" the EEA Regs?

The only reference to periods of sickness in the Regs seems to refer solely to those who have ceased activity permanently.

Kitty
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Post by Kitty » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:56 pm

Having been reading around, the HMRC website states:

"Comprehensive sickness cover includes the National Heath Service (NHS) cover."

This suggests that anyone entitled to NHS treatment can use the "self sufficient" description to cover temporary periods of sickness in between exercising EEA worker rights. Does that sound right?

Cammey
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Post by Cammey » Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:01 pm

I've had a similar dilemma, where I'm the non-EEA husband earning the wages, but because of the ‘health insurance’ requirement on 'self sufficiency' we can't use that as a selection in section 4 of EEA4.
This seems rather strange considering the large national insurance contributions I've been making over the last 7 years. My EEA wife also worked in the UK for years before we got married so she has also made NI contributions.

This was not an issue in the EEA form I downloaded in 2007 as my earnings could be included for the employment criteria. The form has been changed since.

Due to this reason I have decided not to risk being rejected and will probably apply for another 5 year permit (EEA2).

Cammey
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Post by Cammey » Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:04 pm

Kitty wrote:Having been reading around, the HMRC website states:

"Comprehensive sickness cover includes the National Heath Service (NHS) cover."

This suggests that anyone entitled to NHS treatment can use the "self sufficient" description to cover temporary periods of sickness in between exercising EEA worker rights. Does that sound right?
I spoke to some one on the home office help line and she said that National Insurance was not included in the health insurance criteria.

Cammey
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Post by Cammey » Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:43 pm

I've been reading the home office website on this page:

Home Office - Documents Required

Under the heading 'If you are self-sufficient, you should provide:', the word 'comprehensive sickness insurance' links to a definition:

"Insurance that will pay for any medical treatment required in the United Kingdom by someone who is not entitled to treatment from the National Health Service...."

This would indicate that anyone that has the right to NHS treatment doesn't need 'comprehensive sickness insurance'.

However the EEA3 and EEA4 forms indicate that anyone applying a 5 year treaty right as 'self sufficient' is required to provide evidence of 'comprehensive sickness insurance'. This is very badly written if it is infact not-mandatory for all 'self sufficient' applicants.

My wife (Italian) and I (New Zealand) are entitled to NHS treatment through my National Insurance contributions and through reciprocal agreements with both our countries. Therefore, my wife who doesn't work can apply a treaty right as 'self sufficient' (from my earnings) without having to provide evidence of 'comprehensive sickness insurance'.

Am I correct in assuming this??

thsths
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Post by thsths » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:35 pm

Cammey wrote:However the EEA3 and EEA4 forms indicate that anyone applying a 5 year treaty right as 'self sufficient' is required to provide evidence of 'comprehensive sickness insurance'.
I follow your logic that you and your spouse are covered by the NHS. An NHS card should be sufficient proof of this.

However, I still do not understand this is an issue at all, since once you have PR, you covered by the NHS. So this is kind of circular logic: you have no private insurance, so you do not get PR, so you get no access to the NHS. Apart from the fact that it is wrong (residents are covered), I cannot imagine that a charade like this would stand in court.

I think this is just another obstacle the Home Office is inventing to hinder the right of free movement.

And I think I finally found the official position on NHS charges. http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Healthcare/Enti ... /DH_074381 says that anyone working here and their spouse and children are exempt from charges. This is even if you are not an ordinary resident (which undoubtedly you are by now)!

There are a few corner cases where NHS coverage may be partial, but the right of free movement applies. I guess in these cases private health insurance can be required. However, the whole concept is extremely difficult, because the final decision rests with the hospital, and is made according to common law criteria on a case by case basis.

Anyway, the conclusion is that ordinary residents have comprehensive coverage via the NHS. Ordinary resident means either that you intend to settle, or that you have been in the UK for at least 12 months.

Tom

Cammey
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Post by Cammey » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:50 am

Hi guys, thanks very much for your input, but I have to make a decision by early afternoon today (31 July) so that I can send the forms in by special delivery.
Should I go for permanent residency by sending in forms EEA3 and EEA4; or go for EEA2 (the safe option).
I appreciate all the advice given on this thread and another, but I can’t risk being deported.
After 7 years in the UK and marriage We have built our life's here and having to leave in a hurry would cause havoc; especially considering we’re on the border line financially with mortgage payments. If my income was lost our house would probably be lost.

Lets say, I applied for permanent residency and it was rejected; what would the consequences be? Even if the EEA forms are a sham, because they don’t follow legislation?

What come-back do I have if the application is rejected? Especially if the ‘Home Office’ representative only knows the form?
I’ve made numerous calls to the Home Office and everyone I’ve spoken to has indicated that I can’t apply for permanent residency because my wife doesn’t work; and if rejected I have no more rights to be here.

I don’t even know if I can apply for a 5yr residence more than once (EEA2)?

Please post any suggestions ASAP.

Thanks, Cameron.

(Sorry for posting this on more than one thread, but I need as much advice as possible. I had every thing planned ages ago after downloading the 2007 version of EEA4, but it changed in 2008).

Kitty
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Post by Kitty » Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:23 pm

I think I have got a partial solution to my problem...

In the EEA Regs, a "qualified person" includes a "worker" (6(1)(b)), and "a person who is no longer working shall nor cease to be treated as a worker for the purpose of paragraph (1(b)) if he is temporarily unable to work as the result of an illness or accident..." (6(2)(a)).

My problem is that the EEA national I am advising was sick in the UK for a long time - 18 months - but she did go back to work after that.

Hopefully this means I don't need to bother with the "self sufficient"

I don't know how she was treated by the NHS - you are entitled to free NHS if you are working in the UK or if you are "ordinarily resident" here. I don't know what happens to long term patients...

Cameron, sorry I can't come up with anything in this thread for you - I was trying to avoid hijacking yours!

The EEA caseworker guidance does say that if permanent residence criteria are not satisfied then they will consider whether you should get a residence permit instead.

I think your wife should be OK on the self-sufficiency angle based on the "ordinarily resident" NHS criteria but this does seem a bit circular...

Cammey
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Post by Cammey » Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:58 pm

Thanks Kitty

I have completed the EEA3 and EEA4 forms and sent them this afternoon.
I used the 'Self Sufficient' treaty right and stated that 'comprehensive sickness insurance' isn't required because as a worker my spouse also has a right to NHS treatment. I hope it works.
The best thing I can do now is forget about it until we get a reply.
I've also told my wife that it would be advisable for her to get a job so that if the application is rejected we can easily apply for the 5 year permit. It would help us a lot financially as well.

Kitty
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Post by Kitty » Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:57 pm

Fingers crossed Cameron :)

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