A Real Question

[rob]

Hello again

Been thinking a bit (dangerous though as it may be in my case). Now here is a real question for the brainbox team. My student visa expired a week ago. I am still busy with my course for the next three weeks. According to my passport, my status automatically defers to 'Tourist' for a period of six months.

No, did not renew visa due to lack of funds and College refused to support visa renewal. College asserted I could have finished dissertation from abroad. Fair enough.

If I should get a job offer at this stage, or within the next three weeks, what would be the best process to follow and by when? What is permissable within the law?

Thanking you for your advise.

Rob

[Chess]

Overstaying is a continuing offence from the Day it starts - rectifying the problem is usually a very big struggle...


...if you wanna work get employer to apply for a WP and then fly out of the country such that you are classified as an overseas applicant..

I am still busy with my course for the next three weeks. According to my passport, my status automatically defers to 'Tourist' for a period of six months.

Never heard or read about such automatic transfer of status

[rob]

Hold up a second! My passport allows me 6 months per year in the UK - WITHOUT a visa. Therefore, I am here LEGALLY! I am genuinely shocked at the suggestion that I have to leave the country while I am in the final stage of my dissertation and that I have "overstayed" my welcome. This, simply, can, not, be, correct, or right. According to UCOSA, it is possible for me to change my status without leaving the country, once the visa has lapsed, albeit a hairy process.

I think we need a legal opinion on the matter.

Thanks anyway, for scaring the daylights out of me..

[marka]

Hi,

I have to agree with Chess. Your passport allows you to be admited to the UK for a period of 6 month as a tourist or a business visitior at the discression of the Immigration officer at the port of entry. When you entered the UK last time you did so under a student visa, which you say, has now expired. So you have not been admited to the UK for 6 month as a bona fide tourist/business visitor. If you had been admited to the UK as such there would be a stamp in your password that would say so. The only stamp/visa in your passport is an expired student visa.

So, I am afraid you have overstayed your student visa, which is the only visa you have for the UK.

For example, I also have a passport that allows Visa free travel to the UK. If my workpermit (have ILR now, but a few years back) had expired and the associated LTR had expired I would not automatically revert to a tourist for 6 month as I had never entered the UK as a tourist and am not a bona fide tourist.

If you wish to have a 6 month tourist Visa you should have fiiled for a change of status (student->tourist). Otherwise you could have taken your chances by exiting the UK for 1 day and coming back in and asking to be stamped as tourist and your student visa to be ignored, but there is every chance that the immigration officer would not oblige as you are not actually a tourist...

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news...

Cheers,

marka

[John]

Marka, I agree .... sounds like Rob needs that proverbial "weekend in Paris"! And then hope that he gets six months permission to enter the UK as a tourist.

Of course the difference is that whilst on a student visa he could work in the UK, albeit only for limited hours, as the holder of a visitor's visa he is not allowed to work.

But Rob you say "did not renew visa due to lack of funds", how exactly will you support yourself as a mere visitor?

[rob]

Hi all

Fair enough. Seems I have been most naive indeed. Now, I am a little stuck trying to finish off my dissertation.

John, great question again. Thank you. Here is my story.

Was "invited" to join the MBA program in 2003. Applied and was approved. Clamoured for details to plan budget, timings and so forth. Let's face it - to study abroad for a year plus is a proper project when self funded. Received all papers and so on and went to British Embassy for visa. Looked at first visa, issued against course letter, and something made me go back and ask for another few months. The authorities kindly complied.

Total investment to do and complete project - approx £22K. My net worth in cash. Anyways, course starts late by 1 month. Course eventually gathers momentum, slowly. Stage 1 completed, cash flow situation projection not hot - reduce cost to cheaper accommodation. Stage 2 eventually gets underway. Mostly chaos! Compulsary subjects are fine, but electives not materialising. Dragging along.

By Oct. 04, sat with course leader and stipulate my position. Project is funded till end of Feb 05. Course HAS to finish by then as planned. If not, let me do what i have to do to finish on time. Was offered an option, took it, but 2 months later was told it cannot be delivered to me. Fuming, frustrated - I remain focussed on my course.

Bottom line, course overran by about 3 months. Did not KNOW this till somewhere in feb, when the course was supposed to finsih. COULD not know this as all attempts to get completiond ates proved unsuccessful for months on end. Anyways, so I am in trouble. My planning in a mess. Now I have to make do and cope.

Eventually, my reserve resources dried up - and course is STILL not completed. If one has to eat or buy a visa, you eat. Hence lack of funds.

Tried for refund from course, on the basis of alleged breach of contract, but they dug in...no help whatsoever. I am on my own. Only student in my cohort who seems interested in finsishin on time. All the others, extended visa for another year. BECAUSE I worked hard, met all deadlines, and want to graduate as early as possible - I am now out of support for the visa. The "food" money I wanted to use for the visa, now used as food as I had no support for visa re-application from international office at college. Probably because I went complaining about the alleged "incompetence".

How am I surviving? I am off course. But now I am in such a mess. My life plan has been severely impacted and my investment stands to be lost. Over what really? Did I not come properly funded? I did. Did I not pro-actively manage my responsibilities? I did. Did I mess about on the course? No. There must be some recourse here.

According to a named solicitor, whom I cannot afford - I have, under English Law, a case of breach of contract. So what? I have no resource or time to sort this mess.

So what to do now? I need to get my work done. I am thinking of lodging a case with some authority of misrepresentation costing me my legal status and inducing incredible hardship - hardship I could not foresee as I had trusted the terms and conditions presented to me.

Anyways, that is argument. This sucks. As a mature person, I came properly prepared and did my bit and paid my way. Now it is a mess. I cannot afford to lose my education - so I have to at least complete that.

I would like to "pop" to France, but hey - food and petrol first.

This course - as a project - is a failure. One cannot control the information one is being fed, and trust looks better in hindsight.

Off course, any and all help would be greatly appreciated. I'll sing for my supper if I have to.

Thanks for clarifying matters for me - now I KNOW that I am in trouble.

[rob]

There is a price to pay for wanting to be successful off course. My worst case scenario looks like this:

- Possible loss of total investment (only £22K - pocket money!)
- Possible loss of personal investment in long-term relationship (I have to leave you know - 3 years down the drain).
- Possible loss of PhD (proposal only took an extra 2 months to write)
- Possible loss of life investment with personal migration plan (cannot be measured)

Lucklily, my course has taught me that there are many ways to the same door, even if there is only one way through it. As Arnie used to say: "I'll be back!"

Thanks for all the intended, and unintended support.

[Chess]

Rob,

Thanx for sharing your story with the forum...

Eventually, my reserve resources dried up - and course is STILL not completed. If one has to eat or buy a visa, you eat. Hence lack of funds.

If the above happened - am afraid you would get the Visa first and eat later

[rob]

Only a pleasure.

[marka]

Hi,

You mention a 3-year relationship. If that relationship is with someone resident in the UK you can apply for an unmarried partners visa to stay with your partner in the UK. It would cost a bit of money, but its money well spent because it would allow you to settle in the UK.

Cheers,

marka

[rob]

Thanks Marka.

I suppose one needs to look into all the different "options" available. "Asylum" does spring to mind.....

[John]

Hm .... asylum ????? And how would that help? Clearly you have not claimed asylum at the earliest possible moment on arriving in the UK. Accordingly, even if they accepted your claim, you would not be eligible for any financial or accommodation help from the UK Government.

[rob]

Good 'ole John. Well..there goes that one!

[rob]

Hang on a second!
John, what if...a person did enter the UK legally for another reason, but there may well be a case for "Asylum"? Isn't it true that the request for "asylum" may be activated when it is needed to?

[Kayalami]

rob,

1. Entry into the UK and associated leave to remain for those subject to immigration control is a privilage not a right. Such authorisation must be given by an officer acting on behalf of the Secretary of State for the Home Department/Office on the basis of an application as proscribed/ directed by the Immmigration Acts, rules and regulations thereof.

2. As highlighted by Chess and marka you should have submitted an application to extend your student status or convert to visitor status on the basis of thesis completion - the issues around your institution mean the latter option would have been more likely.

3. A claim for asylum must be on the basis of persecution under 5 grounds as listed in the Geneva Convention. As a minimum I suspect your country of nationality is on a prescribed list (white list) where such claims are deemed manifestly unfounded/ rejected on the grounds that appropriate institutions exist within a democratic framework to prevent claimed persecution. In any case the claim would have no substance or truth to it - you appear to consider such a time buying routine. You are likely to be detained (possibly on the day of your substantive interview) then removed within 4 weeks of such from the UK with no right of appeal other than from abroad. Of course re-entry into the UK will then be an issue that may haunt you well into the future.

4. Why can't you return to your home country now to complete your thesis? Afterall why suffer unecessarily here given the circumstances you describe?

[John]

Rob, I did not draft the rules. OK, there is provision for an override to be applied but that would be very exceptional. Suppose someone comes from country X and intends to return there later in time. Then conditions in country X change markedly, so it would be very unsafe for the person to return to country X. That might trigger exceptional treatment, but it could be handled in a different way, for example an extension of their original visa outside of the normal rules, until such time as conditions improve in country X.

But have things really got a lot worse in your country? Which is where, by the way?

[rob]

Let me just clarify something.

First, I'm merely taking the "P..." a little on the "asylum" story. It was a hypothetical discussion, which I probably should have cleared when I threw it into the debate. I thought I had, but I apologise if it did not come across as such.

Second, If I left now, I would miss my dissertation deadline. A massive transfer would simply not work for me at this critical stage. I'll leave when my dissertation has been handed in. My choice is to complete my degree here, and I am most comfortable with that choice. What happens afterwards, is the same for everyone. We have to find our way.

I came to ask a question. I undoubtedly shared more than I should have. Therefore, let me thank everyone for your patience and helping me understand the facts of the situation. Thank you also all the positive suggestions offered. I have some items to consider for now.

Thank you to the moderators of this site and the good work you are doing. I, for one, am most grateful to you all.

- Till later then -

"Follow your hearts"

[Kayalami]

Difficult situation - in the approach you deem to have decided it is best you depart the UK as soon as your dissertation is completed/ submitted. You can re-enter as a visitor at a later stage. As a South African National you can travel to the UK as a visitor without requiring a visa. By the way RSA on White List I mentioned earlier. If it helps I was recently at the RSA consulate in Whitehall - the queue was manic...the come home campaign/drive to get skilled South Africans back seems to be working but that's a discussion for another day. Trust things work out and best of luck.

[raniwza]

Hi there

If you are an MBA graduate you are free to work up to one year without a work permit. Why not find out from the Home office? You should really have extended your student visa rather than getting a tourist stamp. My cousin finished her studies in September but her graduation is in July. So she got her student visa extended, without the help of the university, just a letter confirming her graduation will be in July so she has worked under student visa. Along the way, she managed to get a sponsor for her work permit and she is working full time now before her graduation day! She needed a sponsor but you may not because you are an MBA holder, may be it would be useful to enquire with the Home Office for your rights?

Hope this ever slighltly helps.

Thanks Azwinar