How to convert from citizenship "by descent"

[lorencew]

How to convert from citizenship "by descent" to citizenship "otherwise than by descent"? Where can we find the law on this?

[vinny]

Chapter 20: British citizenship "by descent" and "otherwise than by descent"

Once you have acquired British citizenship by descent, I don't think that you can convert to British citizenship otherwise than by descent.

[Mr Rusty]

You have to be born again

[UKBAbble]

You have to be born again

Like Cliff Richard

[Wanderer]

You have to be born again :P

Like Cliff Richard :wink:

He was born in India, his kids would be British by Descent, if he had any.

[Obie]

Children born overseas to people with British Citizenship by descent , will have British Citizenship otherwise than by descent. They will not automatically gain citizenship, they will have to be resident in a British territory for a period of 3 years, and then they will be registered as British, and gain citizenship otherwise than by descent.

If a British Citizen, who obtained citizenship by descent produce offspring in the UK, or a UK overseas territory, that child will become British Citizen otherwise than by descent.

[joe777]

Children born overseas to people with British Citizenship by descent , will have British Citizenship otherwise than by descent. They will not automatically gain citizenship, they will have to be resident in a British territory for a period of 3 years, and then they will be registered as British, and gain citizenship otherwise than by descent.

If a British Citizen, who obtained citizenship by descent produce offspring in the UK, or a UK overseas territory, that child will become British Citizen otherwise than by descent.

have you got the first sentence the wrong way around ? I thought children born overseas to people with british citizenship by descent their child will not be british. but if the parent was british otherwise by descent then that child will be british by descent.

[Obie]

The first sentence is not wrong, although i probably should have phrased it better, by saying " Children born overseas to parents who are citizens by descent, will eventually be able to gain British Citizenship otherwise than by descent, once the 3 years residency requirement in the UK has been met, and the parents proceed with the registration process".

However, it is important to note that these children will have no automatic right to citizenship, except at the Secretary of State's discretion, in the extreme of circumstance.

[lorencew]

" Children born overseas to parents who are citizens by descent, will eventually be able to gain British Citizenship otherwise than by descent, once the 3 years residency requirement in the UK has been met, and the parents proceed with the registration process".

However, it is important to note that these children will have no automatic right to citizenship, except at the Secretary of State's discretion, in the extreme of circumstance.

What is meant by overseas? If it is within the Crown's dominions, then is it overseas?

Reading the laws, I saw nothing that said 3 years. The naturalisation process is 5 years. Is there a shortened period for holders of a UK passport?

[lorencew]

Chapter 20: British citizenship "by descent" and "otherwise than by descent"

Thank you for the link. I read it, but I cannot make much sense of it. Does this apply to persons born before 1949?

It sound like you must be born on the british isles to have "otherwise than by descent." Or parents in crown service.

Does the British army qualify for crown service? I saw every other job listed there, except for plain old "Army".

[Obie]

By overseas, i meant abroad, outside UK, outside crown dependency territory/outside British overseas territory.

I hope that make sense to you now.

The 3 years i mentioned has nothing to do with naturalisation, as children under 18 cannot be naturalised.

Although there are some categories of people, who can get naturalised after three years of lawful stay in the UK. I will try and not go into that, by just confining to the topic in question.

See this information which will give you a better understanding of what i was referring to.

[vinny]

Chapter 20: British citizenship "by descent" and "otherwise than by descent"

Thank you for the link. I read it, but I cannot make much sense of it. Does this apply to persons born before 1949?

It sound like you must be born on the british isles to have "otherwise than by descent." Or parents in crown service.

Does the British army qualify for crown service? I saw every other job listed there, except for plain old "Army".

Note that:

Before 1983, as a general rule British nationality could only be transmitted from the father through one generation only, and parents were required to be married. See History of British nationality law.

British Army is included as crown service. See example 20.2.6.1.

[vinny]

[quote="Chapter 20: British citizenship "by descent" and "otherwise than by descent"]Examples

20.2.6.1 A person was born in Hong Kong in 1950. He was, therefore, a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies under s.4 of the British Nationality Act 1948. His father was Australian. His mother was a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by birth in the United Kingdom. His father was recruited in the United Kingdom in 1948 into the British Army and was posted to Hong Kong. That person would normally have become, on 1 January 1983, a British citizen by descent under s.14(1)(b). But, in fact, he became a British citizen otherwise than by descent under s.14(2) because of his father's Crown service, even though his father was not a British citizen. [/quote]

[lorencew]

The person was born in 1945. Commencement of the 1948 act was January 1949. Portions of the act apply to make her a CUKC. Thankfully, section 5 of the 1948 act does not apply to people born before commencement: "5.—(1) Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent . . ."

It follows that she is a British citizen "otherwise than by descent" and can pass it to her children.:

1981 Nationality Act:
[Supplementary
14. Meaning of British citizen (by descent).— (1) For the purposes of this Act a British citizen is a British citizen “by descentâ€

[lorencew]

The answer, no need to convert. She was born within the UK (Calcutta).
Do you agree?
http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/siteco ... iew=Binary

Dominions
1. The dominions
3.4 India became a Dominion in August 1947. Both before and after attaining Dominion status, India was "within the Crown's dominions" for the purposes of British nationality law.

1.1 The term "within the Crown's dominions" referred to all the territories over which the British Crown had sovereignty or "dominion". All foreign territories therefore felloutside the Crown's dominions. For British nationality law purposes, all the states and territories of the Empire came "within the Crown's dominions" excluding:
• Foreign states (whether protected or not)
• Protectorates
• Mandated/trust territories
1.2 As a result, a person born within the Crown's dominions was almost invariably born within the Crown's allegiance. Accordingly, birth within the Crown's dominions prior to 1 January 1949 automatically conferred British subject status (British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act 1914, s.1(1)(a)).
1.3 Since 1 January 1949, the expression "within the Crown's dominions" has still been in use, but its significance in British nationality law is far less than it had beenprior to that date. The UK's colonies and the independent Commonwealth countries which recognise the Queen as Head of State (rather than just Head of the Commonwealth) remain "within the Crown's dominions". Although birth within the Crown's dominions prior to 1 January 1949 had conferred British subject status, since that date such birth has conferred nothing (under the BNA 1948, a territory had to be within "the UK and Colonies" for birth there to be of significance, while under the BNA 1981 only birth in the UK or a "British Dependent Territory" can confer British nationality).

[JAJ]

The answer, no need to convert. She was born within the UK (Calcutta).

Calcutta was part of a Dominion until 1949 (for nationality purposes) but was never part of the United Kingdom.

[lorencew]

Calcutta was part of a Dominion until 1949 (for nationality purposes) but was never part of the United Kingdom.

India is listed here:
http://www.uniset.ca/naty/BNA1948.htm
(3) The following are the countries hereinbefore referred to, that is to say, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the Union of South Africa, Newfoundland, India, Pakistan, Southern Rhodesia and Ceylon.

Part II

Citizenship of the United Kingdom and Colonies.
Citizenship by birth.

4. Subject to the provisions of this section, every person born within the United Kingdom and Colonies after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by birth:

I am going to research now that she was registered as British 1945, because of the clues on the birth registration certificate.

[lorencew]

From the British Nationality Act, 1948:
(My comments are in parenthesis)
Transitional.

British subjects before commencement of Act becoming citizens of United Kingdom and Colonies.

12.—(1) A person who was a British subject immediately before the date of the commencement of this Act shall on that date become a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies if he possesses any of the following qualifications, that is to say—

(a) that he was born within the territories comprised at the commencement of this Act in the United Kingdom and Colonies, and would have been such a citizen if section four (see 4. below, citizenship by birth and not "by descent") of this Act had been in force at the time of his birth; (Yes, because her Father was born in Scotland.)

(2) A person who was a British subject (She was a British subject born in Dominions 1945) immediately before the date of the commencement of this Act (1-1-1949) shall on that date become a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies if at the time of (her) birth (her) father was a British subject and possessed any of the qualifications specified in the last foregoing subsection. (Yes, her Father possessed one of the qualifications.)

Citizenship by birth or descent.
Citizenship by birth:

4. Subject to the provisions of this section, every person born within the United Kingdom and Colonies after (section 12.a changes section 4. to include persons born before the commencement) the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by birth.

Citizenship by descent.

5.—(1) Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act (1-1-1949) shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent . . . (does not apply, she was born 1945.)

Again, the whole 1948 act is here:
http://www.uniset.ca/naty/BNA1948.htm

(So far, I have not heard any sound replies why she might be a citizen "by descent".)