Visit Visa after Settlement Rejected

[secret_qa]

Hi All,

Some details before I ask the question
1. Applicant is 70 years old
2. Applicant applied for settlement 2 years ago, appealed the decision and that was also turned down an year ago
3. Reason for refusal was that judge believed that for the care requirements of the applicant, arrangements can be made in her current country of residence
4. more than an year ago, applicant was separated and had serious health issues
5. The situation has now changed, applicant is not separated any more and their partner is taking care of them both financially and morally.
6. Applicant's health has now also improved

we now want to apply for their visit visa as think it would be best that if they spend 3 months in England every one year. This was applicant will be able to spend time with their children in the UK as well.

Since the situation has completely changed in about an year and a half, what is the best way to approach a visit visa this time?

If there is a very minor chance of getting this approved then can you please share your thoughts on what else should be done?

[CR001]

As advised in 2017 when you asked, a failed/refused ADR settlement visa virtually shuts the door on any future visitor visas due to the previous intention to settle being made.

immigration-for-family-members/adr-appe ... l#p1636980

[Zerubbabel]

Hello

Once you go Adult Dependent Relative route, there is no visitor visa in the future. Actually this is one of the reasons to avoid this route because it has very high rate of refusal then it closes the door to any visitor visa application in the future.

2 years ago he was 68, separated and with serious health issues that necessitated your constant care and justified the application for the ADR.

Today, he is 70 but bounced back. His partner is back. His health is fine. He just want to come to the UK as visitor.

You see how the above lines sound. When someone reaches the ADR-type dependency, there is no come back. I have seen old people with degraded health and in need of 24/24 care for basic needs such as feeding, talking medication, clothing, going to the bathroom... and there is no come back from situations like these.

Due to the previous desperate attempts to settle in the UK, the Home Office would assume that this "visitor visa" is an attempt to enter the UK, overstay then make applications to stay. There have been many cases like that.

My father is 70 too. When he was 30, there was options for immigration. It was much easier than today. Many countries didn't have visas. In some places, it was possible to get a citizenship by marriage the same day... but he weighted everything and decided to stay. Now, at 70, it's not really time for immigration. He wouldn't think about it and I wouldn't encourage him.

[secret_qa]

As advised in 2017 when you asked, a failed/refused ADR settlement visa virtually shuts the door on any future visitor visas due to the previous intention to settle being made.

immigration-for-family-members/adr-appe ... l#p1636980

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I remember your advise. But considering we were presenting a genuine case, we had not thought the application will be refused.
I feel the barrister did not his best initially but in the appeals he did tried a lot. He himself was very frustrated and suggested us to not pursue this case any further.
He suggested to wait a few more years and now the situation is that we have some support here. But we want some more time together as a family.

I take your point that visitor route is now closed for us but If there is anything that you can suggest to help us in such situation, it would be much appreacietd.

[secret_qa]

Hello

Once you go Adult Dependent Relative route, there is no visitor visa in the future. Actually this is one of the reasons to avoid this route because it has very high rate of refusal then it closes the door to any visitor visa application in the future.

2 years ago he was 68, separated and with serious health issues that necessitated your constant care and justified the application for the ADR.

Today, he is 70 but bounced back. His partner is back. His health is fine. He just want to come to the UK as visitor.

You see how the above lines sound. When someone reaches the ADR-type dependency, there is no come back. I have seen old people with degraded health and in need of 24/24 care for basic needs such as feeding, talking medication, clothing, going to the bathroom... and there is no come back from situations like these.

Due to the previous desperate attempts to settle in the UK, the Home Office would assume that this "visitor visa" is an attempt to enter the UK, overstay then make applications to stay. There have been many cases like that.

My father is 70 too. When he was 30, there was options for immigration. It was much easier than today. Many countries didn't have visas. In some places, it was possible to get a citizenship by marriage the same day... but he weighted everything and decided to stay. Now, at 70, it's not really time for immigration. He wouldn't think about it and I wouldn't encourage him.

Thanks for the reply. Got your point!

[secret.simon]

Also, three months in the year every year will not be seen as visits, but attempts to reside in the UK in the guide of visits.
You best bets now are to meet your parent outside the UK, either in another EEA member state or in his country of habitual residence.

[secret_qa]

Also, three months in the year every year will not be seen as visits, but attempts to reside in the UK in the guide of visits.
You best bets now are to meet your parent outside the UK, either in another EEA member state or in his country of habitual residence.

thank you

[Zerubbabel]

By the way, this refusal on itself doesn't close other routes such as spouse visas, Tier 2 visas... etc.

It's just matter of practice that visitor visas are no longer delivered to failed applicants on any immigration route. But other visas are fine.

I know it might not be relevant for your father, but I still wanted to share that point with you. And thank you for receiving my previous post with grace.

[secret_qa]

By the way, this refusal on itself doesn't close other routes such as spouse visas, Tier 2 visas... etc.

It's just matter of practice that visitor visas are no longer delivered to failed applicants on any immigration route. But other visas are fine.

I know it might not be relevant for your father, but I still wanted to share that point with you. And thank you for receiving my previous post with grace.

Thanks very much for your update - somehow it got missed earlier and I've just seen that today.
Spouse or Tier 2 is not an option as they are elderly and married.

One of the main grounds in the earlier application was that they were separated from their partner but now they seem to be getting on well and can demonstrate that they live together and support each other financially and morally.
My question now is that what if they both apply together and give evidence that they can look after each other and can get back because the care will be available?
Also, what if they want to come here for medical check-ups for which they will be able to pay?

I am making sure to not waste your time and repeat the questions but at the same time I am trying to understand that if there is a way possible where at least they can visit us once a year for a month or so ?

kind regards,

[Zerubbabel]

My question now is that what if they both apply together and give evidence that they can look after each other and can get back because the care will be available?

Actually applying together is worse. The Home Office likes to see that the applicant for a visitor visa has strong ties (social and economic) to his country. If someone applies without his spouse/kids, usually the chances of the visa are higher than if the entire household is applying.

In the case of your father, you may still apply for a visitor visa and the application will be "considered under its own merits" as the Home Office often claims.

However, I believe that no matter how you put your application, the refusal is a certainty.

Knowing the background, the Home Office would assume that once in the country, your father would claim that his health degraded again, he is too ill to travel, gets papers from doctors and start an application outside the rules or anything. So they will push back any visitor visa from him.

[secret_qa]

My question now is that what if they both apply together and give evidence that they can look after each other and can get back because the care will be available?

Actually applying together is worse. The Home Office likes to see that the applicant for a visitor visa has strong ties (social and economic) to his country. If someone applies without his spouse/kids, usually the chances of the visa are higher than if the entire household is applying.

In the case of your father, you may still apply for a visitor visa and the application will be "considered under its own merits" as the Home Office often claims.

However, I believe that no matter how you put your application, the refusal is a certainty.

Knowing the background, the Home Office would assume that once in the country, your father would claim that his health degraded again, he is too ill to travel, gets papers from doctors and start an application outside the rules or anything. So they will push back any visitor visa from him.

Thanks very much Zerubbabel , Your reply is very insightful and I just could not even think of the points that you've mentioned.

So, he can't come at his own and neither can he come with his spouse!

I am now thinking, why did I do this settlement application in the first place.

Even if demonstrate that my parent is now happy with their marriage back home, have business and newly born grand children, there is no way that I can get them here on a visit!

I wish there was a way that one could challenge Home Office to "consider every case under its own merits"!!

thanks again for your help

[secret_qa]

one more question, please

There is a perception that a visit visa is not issued once a settlement visa is refused and I am sure there are good reasons behind this understanding. I've not heard anyone saying that there visit visa was a success after settlement application was refused.

I am wondering if any of you have any stats or any references that show a visit visa was still issued?

can we get these stats from the home office and if yes how can this be done?

[secret.simon]

can we get these stats from the home office and if yes how can this be done?

Make a Freedom of Information request

What do they know

The Home Office (and other government departments) can and do refuse to provide information if the cost of collecting the information exceeds a certain threshold (about £600). See for instance this Whatdotheyknow request about visit visa refusal rates for Pakistani applicants.

[secret_qa]

Thank you, secret_simon

[secret_qa]

My question now is that what if they both apply together and give evidence that they can look after each other and can get back because the care will be available?

However, I believe that no matter how you put your application, the refusal is a certainty.

Hi All,

Since I am posting another comment, it does shows how serious I am to put efforts for my parent to come here at least once a year for a month or so.

I can assure you all that I've re-read all of the posts above before making this one.

And when there is a will there is a way so I would like to give it ask you again, please

Please assume we've following

1. Photos with the family members proving a strong relationship - Elderly relative being well looked after
2. Letters from relatives in back home confirming the issues between them and elderly relative are now settled and they take responsibility of them
3. Letter from spouse other parent/their spouse confirming we live together - Utility bill proving they both live at the same address
4. Record of their call logs showing their frequent connection
5. Medical reports suggesting that their health is somewhat better than before
6. Letter from the sponsor confirming they will make sure that visitor does not over stay
7. Sponsor want their kids to spend some time with the elderly parent as they can't travel back home much . Also, due to work and etc they just can't travel back home much

* This is no more than 2 years since the ADR was refused

Is there any thin chance that such an application can be approved and if yes, can you please suggest what other factors may make this case a bit stronger?

If the answer is no then I believe the only other option is Surinder SIngh which is to be expired soon anyway.

If nothing works then I believe there are other countries in the world who do allow immigration and can be considered but I just don't want to make assumptions and look forward to your assistance on this, please


Many thanks,

[THO]

All you can do is provide those things and give it a try. Do they have a property they own?

But like others have said, I think the chances are none for all the reasons stated. My own personal experience is letters saying you will make sure they return etc have no weight to them at all. I don't know how much the visa costs to apply for, but I am afraid you will loose your money.

As said, the HO will see your parents as people who want to live here, and that once here, they will fight to stay. If they fall ill, they will cost the UK and use their illness as grounds not to be sent home.

Sorry, I think you need to be prepared to return to your home country and visit them.

[Zerubbabel]

* This is no more than 2 years since the ADR was refused

2 years is like "yesterday" when it comes to immigration history. I have seen refusals 8 or 9 years after the person tried to settled or breach immigration rules in the UK.

I believe the chances for this visitor visa are zero.

You can still try. As they say "each application will be considered under its own merits" but prepare yourself for a refusal based on the previous ADR application.

[secret_qa]

thanks again, Zerubbabel for sharing your honest opinion.

I take this just means there is no chance so I better focus on migrating to another country now.....

many thanks,

[THO]

If you are going to go live in another country, why not try one more time with UK visa first? You've got nothing but money to loose if you don't intend on staying in the UK?

BTW, which country do you think it will be easier to get your parents a visitor visa for?

[secret_qa]

Hi THO,

Thanks for the comment. People here on this forum are expert and I believe based on their experience they rightly believe that there is no chance to get another visitor visa.

But I do understand that there can be exceptions so I take your point too. I wish there was one case where somebody could come and tell that they did got a visitor visa after ADR.

Canada, Ireland, Germany or any other EU county - I believe I can migrate over there and then get them over there at least as a visitor for a month every year.


I've had enough of this UK visa system which charges hefty fees and have drafted the law in a way to ensure there are no ADRs unless they are from a very rich country such as US!

[Zerubbabel]

Canada, Ireland, Germany or any other EU county - I believe I can migrate over there and then get them over there at least as a visitor for a month every year.

I think it's easier for you to fly there once or twice a year to see them, then change your life drastically in the hope to get them a "visitor" visa.

Ireland/UK share immigration information. Irish authorities will know they have been refused an immigration application in the UK.

But whenever you go, it will be the same. You will have to disclose previous failed visas/refusals and that will immediately play against you.

[secret_qa]

Much respect for your views, Zerubbabel,

They do make sense and I will certainly take them in consideration.


If I migrate to Canada and invite them to visit me there then I don't think I need to mention about UK ADR visa but yes for Ireland I will. However for Ireland, if I take a Suinder SIngh route then I hope they will still issue her a visitor visa but please correct me if I am wrong on both of these points.

Or worst case, I can ask another sibling in Canada to invite them on a visitor visa and find work for myself to migrate there - I hope at least this will work?

If nothing works, I try going to Dubai where they do give visitor visa to parents easily ....


I hope I am thinking in the right direction

[THO]

What visa will you apply for, for Canada? How do you know they will allow you to move there, do you have a special skill?

[secret_qa]

As a UK passport holder, I believe I can go there for a visit and do hope to get a job in the industry I already work in. In fact I can only migrate there once they give me a job offer through the online applications