Spouse English tests for migrants dearly beloved, court told

[Aryan2013]

"'The rule is designed, putting it crudely, to keep out persons who tend to marry within their communities, who tend to have arranged marriages, who tend to be from the Indian subcontinent and the Middle East in particular," said Mr Gill.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14298352

[zahid.ali.anwar]

spouses from non europian countries might speak few oddd words of english. But what about people coming from European Union. Just because they are from european union give them a BORN exeption from english language requirement. Theresa May said that British citizenship is a previlage and one should learn english before coming here. But what about europeans, they also come here to live permanently.

So I agree with Mr Gill that this is dearly beloved act...Chinese, Japanese, Hindi, Malai is alien languges to Englishers as Slovakian, Latvian, Polish to them...But no question for them and between the lines no to non europeans. Not good.....

[alekos]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -told.html

I'd be very interested to hear how the Court will rule.

[imprezasti]

Too f...ing right!!! Maybe it will be less of a challenge to communicate in some less desirable parts of London! No wonder "white british" ethnic group is set to become a minority by 2060. I would hate to see the stupid human rights convention mess things up again! IMHO.
The message is simple- learn to speak the language of the country & bother to integrate!

[Bob44]

spouses from non europian countries might speak few oddd words of english. But what about people coming from European Union. Just because they are from european union give them a BORN exeption from english language requirement. Theresa May said that British citizenship is a previlage and one should learn english before coming here. But what about europeans, they also come here to live permanently.

So I agree with Mr Gill that this is dearly beloved act...Chinese, Japanese, Hindi, Malai is alien languges to Englishers as Slovakian, Latvian, Polish to them...But no question for them and between the lines no to non europeans. Not good.....

to be quite honest they is nothing dearly beloved here. is it wrong to tell somebody who wants to come and settle in Britain to learn English first, NO. if you go to Rome you do what the Romans do. same applies if you want to marry a muslim become a muslim first and then marry your partner they is nothing wrong with that. its never to late for the old man to learn the language. if i were this old man i would stop wasting time and start learning English now.

[mulderpf]

I agree that the government might have gone a bit far in trying to control this, as families should never be kept apart, however, I simply don't understand why so many people are hell-bent on moving to England when they don't understand a word of English (and in this case even make it worse by declaring that he is too old to learn a new language and thereby justify that he shouldn't even bother).

Maybe I just live my life differently, but I cannot imagine going to live in China and not understanding a word of Chinese or going to live in Russia and not understanding a word of Russian or going to live in Greece and not understanding a word of Greek. And whilst there are English communities there too, you will always feel like an outsider and have to be treated like you are disabled, because you simply don't understand what is going on around you.

I agree that the rules take things too far, but to actually refuse to even try and integrate into the community where you want to move to is simply ludicrous. It is clear that there's no intention to even try and learn anything about the country or the language of the country where Mr Chapti wants to move to. I don't see why a country should host someone to live there when clearly the person being hosted has no interest in that country or it's language and history.

[86ti]

But what about people coming from European Union.

They fall under EEA regulations meaning that they cannot be discriminated against on the basis of language (Article 24 of Directive 2004/38/EC). This also extends to their non-EEA family members regardless of nationality which means that your argument of beloved is a very weak one. If they wish to naturalise, however, they will nonetheless have to show language skills as anybody else.

[alekos]

So much nonsense being said here. There's no de jure official language in the United Kingdom, the British (English) have never bothered to sort that out, but if Mr Chapti spoke Welsh or Gaellic, he would have settled here ages ago. He would actually be British himself.

Also if Mr Chapti could speak Norman French he could bag himself a nice and cosy clerical job in Parliament down in London.

It's easy to blame the voiceless, much harder to hold the elected to account.

[Aryan2013]

"The argument being put to the High Court is that this regulation disproportionately affects people wishing to bring foreign spouses here from India and Pakistan – an argument supported by figures on family migration which show the most common countries of origin for family migrants lie within the Indian subcontinent."

http://www.leftfootforward.org/2011/07/ ... iminatory/

[mulderpf]

Any rule which cracks down on ALL immigration will therefore be deemed dearly beloved, because of the large proportion of immigrants from the Indian sub-continent.

[Aryan2013]

But what about people coming from European Union.

They fall under EEA regulations meaning that they cannot be discriminated against on the basis of language (Article 24 of Directive 2004/38/EC). This also extends to their non-EEA family members regardless of nationality which means that your argument of beloved is a very weak one. If they wish to naturalise, however, they will nonetheless have to show language skills as anybody else.

Basically, a non-EEA person can marry German, French, Spanish, Danish, Irish or any other EU resident and can come to live and work in UK, without knowing a word of English but the same person has to pass an English test, if he/she wants to marry a British Person and wants to live and work here. How on earth that can be justified??

I am in favour of learning English but I have got problem if the rules are not just and fair!!

[Aryan2013]

Any rule which cracks down on ALL immigration will therefore be deemed dearly beloved, because of the large proportion of immigrants from the Indian sub-continent.

I think you are mistaken, no one said capping T2 was dearly beloved, closing down T1 was dearly beloved, stopping "bogus" students was dearly beloved. What you fail to understand is this: Its not about immigrants, its about British people, they being discriminated in their own country.

I think its the same old tory policy of kicking the poor, kicking the disabled, et al.

[alekos]

Any rule which cracks down on ALL immigration will therefore be deemed dearly beloved, because of the large proportion of immigrants from the Indian sub-continent.

I think you are mistaken, no one said capping T2 was dearly beloved, closing down T1 was dearly beloved, stopping "bogus" students was dearly beloved. What you fail to understand is this: Its not about immigrants, its about British people, they being discriminated in their own country.

I think its the same old tory policy of kicking the poor, kicking the disabled, et al.

Thank you sir/madam for raising this.

[86ti]

Basically, a non-EEA person can marry German, French, Spanish, Danish, Irish or any other EU resident and can come to live and work in UK, without knowing a word of English but the same person has to pass an English test, if he/she wants to marry a British Person and wants to live and work here. How on earth that can be justified?

You may not like it but free movement within the EEA cannot work if you impose additional hurdles like language requirements, etc. thus consequently non-EEA family members have the same rights. If you are seeking for a justification you will have to ask the (previous) UK goverenment but you have already said it:

Its not about immigrants, its about British people, they being discriminated in their own country.

British citizens, by the way, can move to other member states under the same rules and retain these rights after return to the UK. There are more British abroad than the UK has in foreign EEA nationals. Would be interesting to compare their willingness to learn (some of) the language of their host memeber state to the same willingness of the EEA population here in the UK.

[drjabberwocky23]

I agree that the government might have gone a bit far in trying to control this, as families should never be kept apart, however, I simply don't understand why so many people are hell-bent on moving to England when they don't understand a word of English (and in this case even make it worse by declaring that he is too old to learn a new language and thereby justify that he shouldn't even bother).

Maybe I just live my life differently, but I cannot imagine going to live in China and not understanding a word of Chinese or going to live in Russia and not understanding a word of Russian or going to live in Greece and not understanding a word of Greek. And whilst there are English communities there too, you will always feel like an outsider and have to be treated like you are disabled, because you simply don't understand what is going on around you.

I agree that the rules take things too far, but to actually refuse to even try and integrate into the community where you want to move to is simply ludicrous. It is clear that there's no intention to even try and learn anything about the country or the language of the country where Mr Chapti wants to move to. I don't see why a country should host someone to live there when clearly the person being hosted has no interest in that country or it's language and history.

I agree with the sentiment behind what you are saying and my personal views veer towards an integrated society (perhaps unrealistically). I do feel, however, that a language requirement to enter the country on a spouse visa is a little too much, however. Asking him to learn English in order to settle here permanently thereafter, on the other hand, is entirely reasonable (IMHO).

[Nimitta]

I agree with the sentiment behind what you are saying and my personal views veer towards an integrated society (perhaps unrealistically). I do feel, however, that a language requirement to enter the country on a spouse visa is a little too much, however. Asking him to learn English in order to settle here permanently thereafter, on the other hand, is entirely reasonable (IMHO).

Germany has the same requirement for spouses of German citizens.

[The Station Agent]

Aryan2013 - you say this policy kicks the poor. Don't you realise that unskilled immigration kicks the UK poor? The people who profit from the enlargement of a pool of poorly skilled people prepared to work for low cash wages, pay no tax and be a burden on the state are the exploitative business owners (often first-generation immigrants themselves). We should do our best, as a country, to very much restrict low-skilled immigration - we have too many people already here without jobs or skills. Family migration is the largest route for unskilled/low skilled immigration. It does the "working class" of the UK a disservice and leads to friction and beloved, because the people already here see waves of new immigrants coming in and not even bothering to speak the lingo.

[Casa]

Interestingly, I spent several years living in Spain and found that of all the foreign nationals, the British were by far the worst at integrating and attempting to learn the Spanish language. Some had been there for 30 years and could only manage to say 'Hello', 'Goodbye' and 'a beer please'!

[faust]

Many people from Europe that are entering UK don't speak a single world of English: Polish , Rumanian, Bulgarian and Italian, French, Germans, ecc.

Is not true that only people from Asia are been target, but also from Russia.
The system is very confusing at the moment. Is also incredible and appalling that people in Russia that would like to apply for a visa must pass a Ket test from Cambridge of English that ONLY 2 TIMES per year are available . !
The other major problem is in the visa application is not specify how long you have to known your partner before you apply for a girlfriend visa application, it also don't say how much money the applicant or sponsor must have in savings, my guess is the same to say : how long is a piece of string !
Applicant should be well made aware before they submit a visa application of the total requirement , but at the moment this is not so !

How long you must known your partner before you submitt a visa for entry ? how much saving a sponsor must have in the bank ?

IF ANYONE KNOW THE RIGHT UNSWER, I WOULD VERY MUCH APPRICATE !!

[Casa]

You don't need to SHOUT! Your post as been answered in your other thread.
Please continue there.

[Aryan2013]

Aryan2013 - you say this policy kicks the poor. Don't you realise that unskilled immigration kicks the UK poor?
Yes, I agree with you on this but the FACT is majority of the unskilled immigration is from EU countires, like it or not!!

The people who profit from the enlargement of a pool of poorly skilled people prepared to work for low cash wages, pay no tax and be a burden on the state are the exploitative business owners (often first-generation immigrants themselves). We should do our best, as a country, to very much restrict low-skilled immigration - we have too many people already here without jobs or skills. Family migration is the largest route for unskilled/low skilled immigration.
You are mistaken on this and cash wages you are talking about is I think about shop owners, if you see the BIGGER picture, they are not even a small dot.

It does the "working class" of the UK a disservice and leads to friction and beloved, because the people already here see waves of new immigrants coming in and not even bothering to speak the lingo.
Spot on, but the solution is to STOP unskilled EU immigration.
I do agree with the point that whoever wants to come here must speak the lingo(It must apply to everyone), full stop.

[Aryan2013]

Interestingly, I spent several years living in Spain and found that of all the foreign nationals, the British were by far the worst at integrating and attempting to learn the Spanish language. Some had been there for 30 years and could only manage to say 'Hello', 'Goodbye' and 'a beer please'!

I don't see a problem, Brits are not there to "steal" low-skilled jobs from spaniards. Britain exports high-skilled people and import low-skilled people from europe and that's the BIG problem, I think.

[86ti]

Yes, I agree with you on this but the FACT is majority of the unskilled immigration is from EU countires, like it or not!

I don't see a problem, Brits are not there to "steal" low-skilled jobs from spaniards. Britain exports high-skilled people and import low-skilled people from europe and that's the BIG problem, I think.

If those are facts you need to show us numbers from a reliable source. No need for cheap polemics.

Spot on, but the solution is to STOP unskilled EU immigration. I do agree with the point that whoever wants to come here must speak the lingo(It must apply to everyone)

As stated earlier, that is not possible.

[Aryan2013]

"The fastest growing group of low-skilled migrant workers in the UK over the past decade has been people from Eastern Europe, whose numbers rose from 4,000 to 239,000 between 2002 and 2011."

http://www.leftfootforward.org/2011/07/ ... t-workers/

"Migrants from eastern Europe are concentrated in low-skill posts, whereas the extra 1.01m from non-EU countries are mainly in middle and upper categories."

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f0bb3ad2-87c8 ... z1VmlFYyIt

[86ti]

Thanks for the links (the second one didn't work for me). The first one is interesting because it supports your claim regarding the numbers, the conclusion there is however quite different from your simplistic view of things.

You would still need to show that Britain only exports high-skilled workers.