irish who is dating non eu member

[kiera]

hi, i am irish man who is dating non eu member who is illegally living in ireland, is there anyway that she could stay legally? what happens if we have a baby? can we get married in ireland?

[megmog]

Hi...

As far as I know.. your girlfriend will have to leave Ireland in order to re-enter legally. which country is she from?

You will not be able to marry in Ireland.. you will need to get her to leave and come back legally in order to get married or you will need to get married in another country.

i do not believe it would make any difference if you had a baby.

It is pretty much impossible to change her status within the country without her returning to her home country..

anyone else know more on this subject?

it would help if we knew which country she was from.

[megmog]

just checked and I think you may be able to get married in Ireland(but you need to give registrar MINIMUM 3 month's notice ) and your wife/girlfriend would still need to return home in order to stand any chance of making a legal application for residence in Ireland.

I think it may also complicate things for you down the road when it comes to applying for a visa/residence for her if she got married here when she was illegal..

[lisatu]

Hi Kiera,

Can I ask if your girlfriend was ever legally in Ireland?

I recently got married to a Non EU National who had been in Ireland legally on a work permit for 3 years. By the time we got married his work permit had expired. We were allowed to get married but are now going to have a long wait before he will be issued with Stamp number 4.

It was mentioned to us by the woman in Immigration that because he was in Ireland legally before it may help us in getting residency but this cannot be guaranteed.

The good news about it is you can get married but as long as she is in Ireland Illegally it will not be very straight forward for you. It may work out better if ye can get married in her country and apply for a VISA for her to come to Ireland with you.

We would have done that but I was and still am pregnant so I was unable to fly. If we happen to here anything encouraging back ill let you know and then you may be able to figure out the best thing for ye to do in order to stay together.

[kiera]

hi, she is from the Philippines.. she is only here on a holiday visa.. we are now thinking of going there to get married. Do you know if we will have problems returning to Ireland?

[lisatu]

From what I have heard from other people it is easier to get a VISA for your spouse when you have been married outside of the Ireland or the EU.

But because of the recent changes by the DOJ that couples who have not lived in another EU country before are being asked to leave the country I dont know if this will effect you getting her a VISA to return. The only thing I can say is to apply for it anyway because some people have been granted them straight away.

I hope that the limited info I have helps you some bit Ill be sure to post if I get any other info on it.

[scrudu]

memog is absolutely right. Firstly, it will make no difference if you have a baby togther. You can marry, as the registratrar is not currently required to check if you are in Ireland legally. This is due to change, but no change to law has been made as yet.

As memog said, you will need to give 3 months notice to the Registrar, and if you are applying to a Dublin Registrar, you may have to wait a few months more for a date for marriage. You could of course apply to a different Registrar elsewhere in the country, but you would have to live there for 7 days prior to completing your paperwork.

Marriage to you will do nothing to change her status in Ireland. After marriage you could apply for residence for her to reside, but it will take many months (12-16) and could well be refused. The fact she was illegal at the time of your marriage would not bode well for a visa applicaiton.

Ireland does not issue exit stamps, so if your girlfirend returns to Philipines, the Irish authorities may not know she was ilegally here. If you then marry abroad, you can apply for her to return on a D-Spouse visa. Such applications take 6-8 weeks. There are many other posts on this topic on the boards. The fact that she has been here already will increase her chances of getting a visa, but be prepared for the fact that she could still be refused. Check out messages on this boards by other Philipino women married to Irish men (changoo or shellylooney). The were refused a few times. shellylooney has since been granted a visa. Residency is not an entitlement according to Irish law, so marriage may not help your case.

Lisatu mentions the current situation with EU & non-EU marriages. This has nothing to do with your case, and relates to a different law.

[Administrator]

.

How long has she overstayed? Is this about some weeks or years?

Is there any record of her overstaying?

If not, try to keep it that way. For example, if she were to return to the Philippines from Britain, there would be no actual proof she overstayed in Ireland.

This could help simplify things, especially if you travel to the Philippines and get married there.

Once married, with all certificates and civil records in order, obtaining a spouse visa is reasonably straightforward.

Well. In comparison to going the marriage route within Ireland with a documented overstayer ...

the Admin

[kiera]

Thank you all for your help. She is here nearly 1 year and we dont think there is any record of her being here... Would it make much of a differance going from England? Would we have any problems getting into England?

[archigabe]

The British embassy would want to know her legal status in Ireland if you apply for a UK visa.

[Sahil]

OR your girl friend simply can go to belfast by road from Dublin (there is no immigration control if you go by Road frm Dublin to Belfast) and Fly from Belfast. Belfast is a part of UK so technically she will be flying from UK to her home country.

Regards,

Sahil

[walrusgumble]

hi, i am irish man who is dating non eu member who is illegally living in ireland, is there anyway that she could stay legally? what happens if we have a baby? can we get married in ireland?

child?

well it wont save the day but, if you relied on article 8 it helps better than just been married.

just remember though, as you are irish, section 6a of citizenship act would not apply to the child. further the child would be entitled to citizenship via your nationality under section 7.

the significance is that as found by the high court case of bode v minister for justice nov 2006 (see bailii.org) the child's constitutional rights kick in.. see the judgement.. not saying it would help you but worth looking at finaly geoghehan j (best judge to have in immigration matters)

[Ben]

The is no border control upon arrival in the UK from ROI. Fly from any airport in ROI and you can enter the UK without any immigration checks.

Theoretically, to enter the UK without a valid visa is illegal. In practice, however, there is nobody to check you.

My wife, who is non-EEA, and I flew from Shannon to Stanstead recently. Upon arrival in the UK, we were looking for the immigration officials to stamp my wife's passport (for the novelty of having the stamp really, it was only a one week holiday visit), but nobody was there. When we found an immigration officer we asked him to stamp it, advising him that my wife is a non-EEA national entering the UK, but he refused on the basis that we were coming from Ireland.

Now, there may be a Common Travel Area agreement between the UK and ROI, but this agreement only applies to UK / ROI citizens. Third country nationals are subject to normal immigration rules upon arrival in either state. What's interesting is that Ireland practices correct immigration control on flights arriving from the UK (and ships for that matter), but the UK refuses.

Is the UK asking for overstayers and other such illegals? Or do they just not see the point, since Northern Ireland is an immigration loophole that is a risk for both countries?

[archigabe]

what happens if we have a baby? can we get married in ireland?

Maybe the Chen ruling can help your wife if she is the parent of a E.U citizen child...
http://www.epha.org/a/1476

http://www.immigrantcouncil.ie/chen.pdf

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/servlet/Front ... 8489185556

[Ben]

what happens if we have a baby? can we get married in ireland?

Maybe the Chen ruling can help your wife if she is the parent of a E.U citizen child...

Only if the OP intends to reside in the UK (including Northern Ireland). If the OP were to have a child, the child would be an Irish citizen (assuming the OP himself is not also entitled to be a British citizen). EU Directive 2004/38/EC has no effect in the EU citizen's home country.

Perhaps, rather than having a child or getting married in order to assist in residence privileges, the OP might consider waiting a year. He has already been with his girlfriend for one year. After two years, it would be considered by UK immigration as a "durable relation", and the girlfriend would be considered the OP's "unmarried partner". The couple could then exercise rights in accordance with EU Directive 2004/38/EC by moving to Northern Ireland. They should stay there at least six months. After this time they should be able to return to ROI under Surinder Singh conditions. I say should because, as we all know, DoJ is hardly renowned for correct implementation of EU Directive 2004/38/EC.

[kiera]

I am thinking of going to the philippines just for a holliday and so it will look like I am visiting my girlfriend a few months before we get married, do you think it will help? do you know if its easy to get a second holliday visa if my girlfriend goes home and return to ireland for holliday/Marriage?

[mktsoi]

The is no border control upon arrival in the UK from ROI. Fly from any airport in ROI and you can enter the UK without any immigration checks.

Theoretically, to enter the UK without a valid visa is illegal. In practice, however, there is nobody to check you.

My wife, who is non-EEA, and I flew from Shannon to Stanstead recently. Upon arrival in the UK, we were looking for the immigration officials to stamp my wife's passport (for the novelty of having the stamp really, it was only a one week holiday visit), but nobody was there. When we found an immigration officer we asked him to stamp it, advising him that my wife is a non-EEA national entering the UK, but he refused on the basis that we were coming from Ireland.

Now, there may be a Common Travel Area agreement between the UK and ROI, but this agreement only applies to UK / ROI citizens. Third country nationals are subject to normal immigration rules upon arrival in either state. What's interesting is that Ireland practices correct immigration control on flights arriving from the UK (and ships for that matter), but the UK refuses.

Is the UK asking for overstayers and other such illegals? Or do they just not see the point, since Northern Ireland is an immigration loophole that is a risk for both countries?

you flew from shannon to uk without people checking yours and your wife passport? i am non eu national as well and i do not need to apply for a visa to go anywhere in eu. last time i flew from dublin to london. the check in desk people insisted that i need a visa to go to london. it depends on whos doing the check in for you.

[Ben]

..last time i flew from dublin to london. the check in desk people insisted that i need a visa to go to london. it depends on whos doing the check in for you.

If, under UK immigration laws you require a visa to enter the UK, the check-in desk staff was correct in insisting you have a visa. Theoretically, the airline may be fined if you do not have one.

The point is, what is law and what happens in reality are not always the same thing. Take the DoJ, for example.