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Non-EU parent EU RC visa application

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

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omi007
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Non-EU parent EU RC visa application

Post by omi007 » Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:03 pm

Hi,

I am a British citizen, currently living in the UK.
I would like to move to Ireland permanently, on my British passport, and then apply for EU RC visa for my mother (who is non-EU citizen).

1. My understanding is, as Brexit transition period is ending on 31st Dec 2020, I need to move to Ireland and start mom's EU RC visa process, before 31st Dec 2020.
Is it correct?

2. Assuming I will be able to move to Ireland in Oct 2020, I will have only 2 months to make mom's EU RC visa application. For approval of such visa, is it the expectation that, I (as a sponsor), should have lived in Ireland for more time, than 2 months?
Does my 2 months of stay before visa application makes the case weaker?

3. Do I need to have a job in Ireland, before I make mom's EU RC visa application?

Many thanks.

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Re: Non-EU parent EU RC visa application

Post by littlerr » Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:13 pm

You are confusing a visa with a residence permission. What is your mother’s nationality? Does she need a visa to visit Ireland?

If yes, you would have to hurry and act now; if no, you have a bit time but time is still running out.

You don’t need to have lived in Ireland for any amount of time before you can apply for your mother’s visa (if she needs a visa) or her permission, but apparently if you move here and set up everything first (find a place to live, set up bank account, find a job etc), that will make the application more genuine.

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Re: Non-EU parent EU RC visa application

Post by CR001 » Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:19 pm

littlerr wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:13 pm
You are confusing a visa with a residence permission. What is your mother’s nationality? Does she need a visa to visit Ireland?

If yes, you would have to hurry and act now; if no, you have a bit time but time is still running out.

You don’t need to have lived in Ireland for any amount of time before you can apply for your mother’s visa (if she needs a visa) or her permission, but apparently if you move here and set up everything first (find a place to live, set up bank account, find a job etc), that will make the application more genuine.
Mother is an Indian national.

immigration-for-family-members/dependen ... l#p1939517
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Re: Non-EU parent EU RC visa application

Post by Xainrind » Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:33 pm

littlerr wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:13 pm
You are confusing a visa with a residence permission. What is your mother’s nationality? Does she need a visa to visit Ireland?

If yes, you would have to hurry and act now; if no, you have a bit time but time is still running out.

You don’t need to have lived in Ireland for any amount of time before you can apply for your mother’s visa (if she needs a visa) or her permission, but apparently if you move here and set up everything first (find a place to live, set up bank account, find a job etc), that will make the application more genuine.
Can you please explain this in more detail if someone has Irish passport and wants to apply for Pakistan national parents in UK what's procedure?

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Re: Non-EU parent EU RC visa application

Post by CR001 » Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:34 pm

Xainrind wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:33 pm
littlerr wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:13 pm
You are confusing a visa with a residence permission. What is your mother’s nationality? Does she need a visa to visit Ireland?

If yes, you would have to hurry and act now; if no, you have a bit time but time is still running out.

You don’t need to have lived in Ireland for any amount of time before you can apply for your mother’s visa (if she needs a visa) or her permission, but apparently if you move here and set up everything first (find a place to live, set up bank account, find a job etc), that will make the application more genuine.
Can you please explain this in more detail if someone has Irish passport and wants to apply for Pakistan national parents in UK what's procedure?
Can you please start your own topic in the relevant sub forum, link below, as it is not relevant to the Irish sub forum. It is also not fair to the OP for you to tag your questions about the UK onto their topic!!!

eea-route-applications/
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omi007
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Re: Non-EU parent EU RC visa application

Post by omi007 » Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:15 pm

littlerr wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:13 pm
You are confusing a visa with a residence permission. What is your mother’s nationality? Does she need a visa to visit Ireland?

If yes, you would have to hurry and act now; if no, you have a bit time but time is still running out.

You don’t need to have lived in Ireland for any amount of time before you can apply for your mother’s visa (if she needs a visa) or her permission, but apparently if you move here and set up everything first (find a place to live, set up bank account, find a job etc), that will make the application more genuine.
My apologies. As I am very new to this process, seems to using confusing words.

* My mother is Indian citizen.

Thanks.

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Re: Non-EU parent EU RC visa application

Post by omi007 » Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:49 am

littlerr wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:13 pm
If yes, you would have to hurry and act now; if no, you have a bit time but time is still running out.
Can you please guide, next course of action for me, in order to proceed with this.

Note - Initially my wife and son can't move with me to Ireland. I and my mom can only move, and others can join us after 8-10 months.

Thanks.

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Re: Non-EU parent EU RC visa application

Post by RizzaS » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:39 am

If you move there before the application, you need to apply for a C-visa to "join an eu citizen" if not, same thing but to "accompany an eu citizen". You need to be able to prove that your mother is financially dependent on you, and other dependence healthwise and such. You must be able to provide proof of this by showing remittances and such. If she was granted to accompany, you have to be with her upon entry, if not, she will not be allowed in. Process took about 6 weeks before the decision, this is not during the pandemic. Not sure how long it will take now.

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Re: Non-EU parent EU RC visa application

Post by Granista » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:55 am

omi007 wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:49 am
littlerr wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:13 pm
If yes, you would have to hurry and act now; if no, you have a bit time but time is still running out.
Can you please guide, next course of action for me, in order to proceed with this.

Note - Initially my wife and son can't move with me to Ireland. I and my mom can only move, and others can join us after 8-10 months.

Thanks.
You won't be an EU citizen in 8-10 months, and so you won't be able to apply under EU treaty rights.

Also your chances of getting an EUTR visa for your mother at this time is extremely low.

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Re: Non-EU parent EU RC visa application

Post by omi007 » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:59 am

Granista wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:55 am
Also your chances of getting an EUTR visa for your mother at this time is extremely low.
Can you please describe the reasons of this?

Thanks.

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Re: Non-EU parent EU RC visa application

Post by littlerr » Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:18 am

Your wife and son - they must have an EU or UK passport, otherwise they will not be able to move to Ireland in 8 months time.

Your mother - as other people have mentioned, it takes quite a few weeks at least to apply for an entry visa even without COVID-19 restrictions. Therefore, you have to act now. Apply for a visa for your mother. Get all of your financial documents that can prove your mother's dependency ready. Have a solid plan of moving to Ireland (finding a job, a place to live, setup utilities etc). You don't have to be physically in Ireland, but you must present a convincing plan that you are looking to move to Ireland with everything ready.

Granista has always been pessimistic but he has a point. It takes quite a bit of time to get a visa, and moving to a different country in the middle of a pandemic looks a bit suspicious. Plus you have the UK being so eager to have a no-deal with the rest of the EU countries. These all make it more difficult than ever to convince the immigration officers that you are here for a genuine reason.

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Re: Non-EU parent EU RC visa application

Post by omi007 » Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:54 am

littlerr wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:18 am
Your wife and son - they must have an EU or UK passport, otherwise they will not be able to move to Ireland in 8 months time.
Wife will be British citizen soon. Son already British citizen.
littlerr wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:18 am
Your mother - as other people have mentioned, it takes quite a few weeks at least to apply for an entry visa even without COVID-19 restrictions. Therefore, you have to act now. Apply for a visa for your mother. Get all of your financial documents that can prove your mother's dependency ready. Have a solid plan of moving to Ireland (finding a job, a place to live, setup utilities etc). You don't have to be physically in Ireland, but you must present a convincing plan that you are looking to move to Ireland with everything ready.

Granista has always been pessimistic but he has a point. It takes quite a bit of time to get a visa, and moving to a different country in the middle of a pandemic looks a bit suspicious. Plus you have the UK being so eager to have a no-deal with the rest of the EU countries. These all make it more difficult than ever to convince the immigration officers that you are here for a genuine reason.
I would be very happy, if we could get long term visa for my mom in the UK. But that visa is extremely difficult to get. (and if we apply for it, and it gets rejected, then chances of getting EUTR visa in Ireland will be less).

This is the reason, I am looking to relocate to Ireland permanently, with assumption that, getting EUTR in Ireland has much better chances of success, than Dependent Parent visa in the UK.

Regarding Brexit, I personally feel, transition period may get extended, as I can't see businesses and individuals are currently prepared for this, but I may be wrong.
If transition period gets extended, I think I will get some more time for the relocation?

Many thanks to all of you for your advice. Much appreciated.

Thanks.

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Re: Non-EU parent EU RC visa application

Post by littlerr » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:01 am

It used to be much easier, but INIS has started to realise that many people are using this as a route of getting into the UK (applying for EUTR in Ireland, then moving to the UK), so it's not as easy as it was before.

The transition period extension is quite unlikely. Even if they do come up with a deal before the end of the year, that deal is more about trade rather than free movements.

The Common Travel Area agreement between the UK and Ireland will still be in place, but it may not cover any non-UK/Irish dependents.

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Re: Non-EU parent EU RC visa application

Post by omi007 » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:14 pm

littlerr wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:18 am
Your mother - as other people have mentioned, it takes quite a few weeks at least to apply for an entry visa even without COVID-19 restrictions. Therefore, you have to act now. Apply for a visa for your mother.
My mom (with Indian passport) already have UK 10 years family visitor visa (almost 8 years left on the visa), and she is in the UK at the moment.
While checking the information about Ireland Type C visas, I came to know, her existing UK visa can be used for entry clearance in Ireland. Is it right?
If yes, we can potentially save much time for entry visa, and after entry in Ireland, EUTR application can be made for my mom?

Thanks.

RizzaS
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Re: Non-EU parent EU RC visa application

Post by RizzaS » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:01 pm

omi007 wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:14 pm
littlerr wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:18 am
Your mother - as other people have mentioned, it takes quite a few weeks at least to apply for an entry visa even without COVID-19 restrictions. Therefore, you have to act now. Apply for a visa for your mother.
My mom (with Indian passport) already have UK 10 years family visitor visa (almost 8 years left on the visa), and she is in the UK at the moment.


While checking the information about Ireland Type C visas, I came to know, her existing UK visa can be used for entry clearance in Ireland. Is it right?
If yes, we can potentially save much time for entry visa, and after entry in Ireland, EUTR application can be made for my mom?

Thanks.
I suggest you email eutreatyrights@justice.ie.

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Re: Non-EU parent EU RC visa application

Post by Obie » Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:44 pm

I do not have a clue where this 8 months date is coming from.

I will implore contributors to desist from providing inaccurate information on the forum.

The transition ends on the 31-12-2020, if the OP enters the state before 31-12-2020, she will be able to bring her mother under the withdrawal treaty. That is the short and straightforward answer, and i will implore others who are unfamiliar with the withdrawal treaty, to desist from providing inaccurate information.
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Re: Non-EU parent EU RC visa application

Post by littlerr » Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:49 pm

Obie wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:44 pm
I do not have a clue where this 8 months date is coming from.

I will implore contributors to desist from providing inaccurate information on the forum.

The transition ends on the 31-12-2020, if the OP enters the state before 31-12-2020, she will be able to bring her mother under the withdrawal treaty. That is the short and straightforward answer, and i will implore others who are unfamiliar with the withdrawal treaty, to desist from providing inaccurate information.
The OP was saying his wife and son, who are UK nationals, would move to Ireland in 8 months’ time. That is perfectly fine. What does that have anything to do with transition?

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Re: Non-EU parent EU RC visa application

Post by littlerr » Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:57 pm

omi007 wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:14 pm
littlerr wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:18 am
Your mother - as other people have mentioned, it takes quite a few weeks at least to apply for an entry visa even without COVID-19 restrictions. Therefore, you have to act now. Apply for a visa for your mother.
My mom (with Indian passport) already have UK 10 years family visitor visa (almost 8 years left on the visa), and she is in the UK at the moment.
While checking the information about Ireland Type C visas, I came to know, her existing UK visa can be used for entry clearance in Ireland. Is it right?
If yes, we can potentially save much time for entry visa, and after entry in Ireland, EUTR application can be made for my mom?

Thanks.
The official response would be no. She needs a Type C Join Family visa for Ireland.

However, I think there is a ruling somewhere that prohibits immigration officers from turning such people away if they do manage to get to the Irish port. That would, however, cast some doubts on your mother’s actual EUTR application when she applied for it. I would not recommend it unless there is no alternative.

Btw just for the purpose of entering Ireland on a UK visa, the visa must have a BIVS remark on it, and you have to make sure that your mother enters UK first. Otherwise the visa will not be accepted at the Irish port.

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Re: Non-EU parent EU RC visa application

Post by Obie » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:06 pm

littlerr wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:18 am
Your wife and son - they must have an EU or UK passport, otherwise they will not be able to move to Ireland in 8 months time.
That statement is wrong and inconsistent with the treaty.

Provided this man is married to his wife before 31-12-2020,which he will be, and provided he commenced residence in Ireland before that period, then his wife and son will be able to join him under current rules.

So that advise is faulty and wrong.
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Re: Non-EU parent EU RC visa application

Post by littlerr » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:10 pm

Obie wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:06 pm
littlerr wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:18 am
Your wife and son - they must have an EU or UK passport, otherwise they will not be able to move to Ireland in 8 months time.
That statement is wrong and inconsistent with the treaty.

Provided this man is married to his wife before 31-12-2020,which he will be, and provided he commenced residence in Ireland before that period, then his wife and son will be able to join him under current rules.

So that advise is faulty and wrong.
I’m curious where you get this information from.

The government’s official response is very clear that they do not know yet.
Under the Withdrawal Agreement UK citizens and their families, who are living legally in an EU country (including Ireland) before the end of the transition period, will be able to continue to live in that country after 31 December 2020.

Information about the status of non-EEA family members of UK citizens who hope to come to Ireland after the transition period has finished (31 December 2020) will be published on citizensinformation.ie when it is available.

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Re: Non-EU parent EU RC visa application

Post by Obie » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:17 pm

Well i got my information from the relevant legal provision.

The government is clearly not saying what you are saying. One can accuse them of giving incomplete information but not inaccurate information.

It is correct that British citizens and their family will continue to have rights to live if they are there before 31-12-20.

Those British citizens residing there lawfully before that period will continue to support family relationship founded before exit day, provided they commence residence before exit day.
That is what the withdrawal agreement provides.

I do not read the press release, which is not even law, as contrading the law in any way.
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Re: Non-EU parent EU RC visa application

Post by Obie » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:24 pm

It will help if perhaps you read section 10(1)(E)(ii), of the withdrawal treaty, which is an agreement between the UK and the EU, and binding on Ireland.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content ... d1e127-1-1
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Re: Non-EU parent EU RC visa application

Post by Granista » Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:18 am

littlerr wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:57 pm

The official response would be no. She needs a Type C Join Family visa for Ireland.

However, I think there is a ruling somewhere that prohibits immigration officers from turning such people away if they do manage to get to the Irish port. That would, however, cast some doubts on your mother’s actual EUTR application when she applied for it. I would not recommend it unless there is no alternative.

Btw just for the purpose of entering Ireland on a UK visa, the visa must have a BIVS remark on it, and you have to make sure that your mother enters UK first. Otherwise the visa will not be accepted at the Irish port.
Incorrect. First of all, immigration officers can and DO turn such people away: if they are visa required and do not have one, they will not gain entry. Second, BIVS is suspended due to Covid, you cannot enter Ireland on ANY UK visa at this time.

Also, the facts here are that it will patently obvious that OP wants to get his mother to the UK, and can't, and since dependent parent cases have high refusal rate anyway, it's not going to get approval. You can appeal, but by then Brexit will be done and you won't win at appeal either.

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Re: Non-EU parent EU RC visa application

Post by Obie » Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:40 am

If this individual is in the state and residing before brexit day, then irrespective of Brexit or not, he and his family will be covered by the existing rules.
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Re: Non-EU parent EU RC visa application

Post by Granista » Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:57 am

Obie wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:40 am
If this individual is in the state and residing before brexit day, then irrespective of Brexit or not, he and his family will be covered by the existing rules.
INIS disagrees with you. And since it is them, and not you, that OP will need to apply to.....

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