Recent experience about entering UK without visa for travelling to Ireland via airport

[mentalmind]

As this topic is discussed before (at the moment I am at the airport so can’t really search for it) but just wanted to share my unpleasant experience I had today.

I am non-EU person travelling from my home country with valid IRP card and flight from home city to Stansted then to Cork.

The table for visa requirements can be found here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... e_2022.pdf

I travelled from UK to Ireland 2 times before without holding UK visa in 2019 and 2020 in Stansted and Gatwick airports. Each time a manager was called to passport desk which is requested by the border force as they don’t have knowledge about this matter. And after some questioning I got the stamp which gives me 24 hours to stay in country, and each time I left the country and the airport within few hours.

Today thou, border force officer went away with my passport and IRP card to discuss this with his colleagues or managers I don’t know. 5 minutes later he came back and said that it’s not possible to transfer to Common Travel Area without having valid UK visa (or transit visa). He said I should travel directly to Ireland and can’t use IRP card to pass thru UK for getting flight from UK to Ireland.

I told him that I did this twice and had no issues. He said ‘they made a mistake and this mistake is now fixed’. I tried to show him the table that I linked above and he said ‘I know what that table is’ and he didn’t even had a look at it.

He said he can send me back to where was my flight from (deny my entry) , but said for this time he will give me a warning. He put W (transit) on my passport and told me to not try this again or I will get caught and get sent back. I assume W stands for Warning.

I am still in the UK and can’t call the mentioned helpline in the said table. But I am really going to chase this tomorrow and try to get official answer via phone line. If officer is wrong I will try to file a complaint, but I know it will not end to anywhere.

I tried to explain him that having EEA issued Residence permit should make me eligible to transfer via UK without any need of visa but he said that doesn’t apply to Common Travel area.

So if you are considering doing something like this, keep this in mind.

[Ticktack]

As this topic is discussed before (at the moment I am at the airport so can’t really search for it) but just wanted to share my unpleasant experience I had today.

I am non-EU person travelling from my home country with valid IRP card and flight from home city to Stansted then to Cork.

The table for visa requirements can be found here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... e_2022.pdf

I travelled from UK to Ireland 2 times before without holding UK visa in 2019 and 2020 in Stansted and Gatwick airports. Each time a manager was called to passport desk which is requested by the border force as they don’t have knowledge about this matter. And after some questioning I got the stamp which gives me 24 hours to stay in country, and each time I left the country and the airport within few hours.

Today thou, border force officer went away with my passport and IRP card to discuss this with his colleagues or managers I don’t know. 5 minutes later he came back and said that it’s not possible to transfer to Common Travel Area without having valid UK visa (or transit visa). He said I should travel directly to Ireland and can’t use IRP card to pass thru UK for getting flight from UK to Ireland.

I told him that I did this twice and had no issues. He said ‘they made a mistake and this mistake is now fixed’. I tried to show him the table that I linked above and he said ‘I know what that table is’ and he didn’t even had a look at it.

He said he can send me back to where was my flight from (deny my entry) , but said for this time he will give me a warning. He put W (transit) on my passport and told me to not try this again or I will get caught and get sent back. I assume W stands for Warning.

I am still in the UK and can’t call the mentioned helpline in the said table. But I am really going to chase this tomorrow and try to get official answer via phone line. If officer is wrong I will try to file a complaint, but I know it will not end to anywhere.

I tried to explain him that having EEA issued Residence permit should make me eligible to transfer via UK without any need of visa but he said that doesn’t apply to Common Travel area.

So if you are considering doing something like this, keep this in mind.

Brexit happened. Countries that never required transit visas now require them. If you're travelling from the UK to a non-EU country and need to transit thru the EU without a visa free passport, that can't happen anymore.

[mentalmind]

I do agree with your point and I totally forgot that Brexit happened, UK always asked for transit visa for my home country. And that table still says (for my situation) citizens of your country needs transit visa with the exceptions below.

I referred to having EEA country issued resident permit as exceptions which totally fits my situation. Im not referring to Irish visa exceptions as it doesn’t apply to me.

If you have visa for Ireland and if you are travelling to Ireland then you don’t need transit visa (according to last exception case) BUT according to border force officer having IRP card is not enough.

He also mixed up Irish citizen card and residence permits (he said they are not same things DUH). Im just pissed off with the Warning on my passport page and he acting bossy for no reason.

I will update this topic tomorrow when I call Stansted airport to get official answer over the phone.

[littlerr]

I think I have gone to great lengths to try to persuade people from doing that in a number of threads in the past. The policy has always been the same - Ireland is a common travel area signatory, and the normal transit rules do not apply to Ireland. Someone allowing you to pass through does not mean it’s right.

Brexit is simply making them being ultra aware of immigration rules and applying them rigorously.

[Dbl353]

Hi @mentalmind
did you get any explanation on this?

[mentalmind]

I called them once, in the evening, and no one picked up the phone or line dropped on purpose, I don't know. But didn't persuaded it as I won't be risking doing this thing again nonetheless.

[littlejunkie]

As you have an IRP card issued by Ireland, definitely fit in the exemption for TWOV. Some of the officers really don't have a clue about their own rules. This is my personal experience traveling to UK for last 12 years without a Visa even though I was a Visa required National. I held a document in the exemption list and most of the time we were asked why we don't have a UK visa,blah blah blah blah. My usual reply was " we don't require a Visa as we are exempted according to that table. You can contact my company regarding this as they do the travel arrangements". After confirmation from his seniors he would allow us but warned that next time we would not be allowed without Visa. I have travelled atleast 15 times after that without Visa, even after Brexit.

You can consider writing to Home Office regarding this
https://www.gov.uk/government/organisat ... -procedure

[littlejunkie]

I hear people saying BREXIT, rules have changed. Yes but mostly for people residing in UK, transiting through the Schengen zone to travel to UK. The BRP is just worth nothing outside UK as even if you are a family member of EU National residing in UK you still need a Schengen Visa to travel to the Schengen zone. Before Brexit this was not the case.

[mentalmind]

As you have an IRP card issued by Ireland, definitely fit in the exemption for TWOV. Some of the officers really don't have a clue about their own rules. This is my personal experience traveling to UK for last 12 years without a Visa even though I was a Visa required National. I held a document in the exemption list and most of the time we were asked why we don't have a UK visa,blah blah blah blah. My usual reply was " we don't require a Visa as we are exempted according to that table. You can contact my company regarding this as they do the travel arrangements". After confirmation from his seniors he would allow us but warned that next time we would not be allowed without Visa. I have travelled atleast 15 times after that without Visa, even after Brexit.

You can consider writing to Home Office regarding this
https://www.gov.uk/government/organisat ... -procedure

Thank you very much for the link, I will send a complaint and also ask for official info about this TWOV for IRP holders, travelling to Ireland from UK when arrived from non-EU country with no visa.

Getting a verbal warning (in my case got a W letter in my passport) is OK even thou it never happened to me before this incident. But risk of entry denied and being sent back to my country would be a humiliating and time and money consuming act.

Thanks again for the link and info and if I hear back anything, I will let everyone know.

[littlerr]

As you have an IRP card issued by Ireland, definitely fit in the exemption for TWOV. Some of the officers really don't have a clue about their own rules. This is my personal experience traveling to UK for last 12 years without a Visa even though I was a Visa required National. I held a document in the exemption list and most of the time we were asked why we don't have a UK visa,blah blah blah blah. My usual reply was " we don't require a Visa as we are exempted according to that table. You can contact my company regarding this as they do the travel arrangements". After confirmation from his seniors he would allow us but warned that next time we would not be allowed without Visa. I have travelled atleast 15 times after that without Visa, even after Brexit.

You can consider writing to Home Office regarding this
https://www.gov.uk/government/organisat ... -procedure

Your personal experience didn’t make it legal. The OP travelled successfully to the UK without a visa a shot a warning. I travelled to the UK without a visa previously as well and the officer also reminded me that I should get a visa in future. As you have said, the officer warned you and you simply chose to ignore it.

To be explicitly clear, normal TWOV rules apply only when travelling through the UK to a third nation. Ireland does not count as a third nation. You can transit through the UK to Germany for example, but you cannot transit through the UK to Ireland. That’s has always been the rule. It has never ever been changed since the TWOV rules were published decades ago.

The UK and Irish governments have already relaxed this rule in the last few years so that people who have a BIVS visa can transit through the other country, but there was never any policy that allows a person with an IRP to transit through the UK to Ireland.

[littlejunkie]

The UK Government website says you can TWOV if you one of the following is applicable. As per the post the OP satisfies all the conditions listed in TWOV 2 and i have just posted some of the conditions in TWOV 3. Condition (J) says travelling on to the Republic of Ireland

(h) hold a valid common format residence permit issued by an EEA state (pursuant to Council Regulation (EC) No. 1030/2002) or Switzerland; or
(i) hold a valid uniform format category D visa for entry to a state in the European Economic Area (EEA) or Switzerland; or
(j) be travelling on to the Republic of Ireland and have a valid Irish biometric visa; or
(k) be travelling from the Republic of Ireland and it is less than three months since the applicant was last given permission to land or be in the Republic by the Irish authorities with a valid Irish biometric visa.


https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration ... isa-scheme

[littlerr]

Irish biometric visa is not issued to IRP holders. They are issued to short visitors and people who come to Ireland for the first time only.

[littlerr]

An Irish biometric visa is issued by selected embassies and consulates outside of Ireland.

The UK Government define Irish biometric visas as those “marked ‘BC’ or ‘BC BIVS’ in the ‘Remarks’ section”.

The closest one to a biometric visa is the now abolished re-entry visa, but it doesn’t have the BC / BIVS remarks on it because the biometric information is not recorded on the visa (because it has already been captured on the IRP / GNIB card). Therefore, foreign countries’ immigration officers won’t be able to obtain any fingerprints or photos digitally associated with the visa.

[mentalmind]

Well I sent a complaint email with all required details. I stated the attitude of the border force officer and also asked if TWOV can be used for my case (non EU travelling to UK to travel to Ireland with valid IRP card). I don’t know if I will get an answer to TWOV question but I will let you know what will be the outcome.

Thanks again for the link about filing a complaint. It was my first time filing a complaint about an officer, let’s see how it will turn out.