Citizenship Application Driving on Learner Permit

[Amjad509]

Hi

I am planning to apply for citizenship through naturalisation and have stamp 4. I did my leaving certificate then went to university and graduated with bachelors degree and now working full time as a developer. I am extremely worried about my citizenship application because of my traffic offences:

1- I was stopped by gardai on TWO occasions for driving unaccompanied. Both times my car was impounded and the second time I also didn't have the L-plates. However, I did not receive any penalty points or fine both times.

2- I was driving unaccompanied and didn't have my L-plates and was stopped at the checkpoint. I was asked about my driving licence and I said I don't have it on me right now. The guard asked me when I got my licence and I said a year ago. He gave me 2 points for not displaying the N-plates and €60 fine which I paid and let me go.

Now I am extremely panicking about the second traffic offence. The issue is that I was on learner permit but received points for not displaying the N-plates. Would this count as fraud/deceiving?

Would my application be refused for not having the good character based on those offences? Has anyone been in similar situation as me and got the naturalisation certificate? I am extremely worried any advice would be much much appreciated.

[littlerr]

Having 2 offences of the same kind is usually considered sufficient proof of not having good character.

You have 3, therefore it’s very likely that the PULSE system has flagged you as a repeated offender. I wouldn’t have high hope to be honest.

[Amjad509]

Having 2 offences of the same kind is usually considered sufficient proof of not having good character.

You have 3, therefore it’s very likely that the PULSE system has flagged you as a repeated offender. I wouldn’t have high hope to be honest.

Thank you for your reply.

Could you please tell me what you mean by PULSE system? I have asked few people and they said not to worry about it as it will not come up in garda vetting so they probably wouldn't know about it, is that true?

Should I declare these offences in my application? I now have passed my driving test so these offences will not happen again as I am no longer a learner, would this help my application?

Does this mean because of these offences I can no longer apply for citizenship as it will be refused or do you think there something can be done about it?

Thanks again for your time and input.

[NPLC]

Having 2 offences of the same kind is usually considered sufficient proof of not having good character.

You have 3, therefore it’s very likely that the PULSE system has flagged you as a repeated offender. I wouldn’t have high hope to be honest.

Thank you for your reply.

Could you please tell me what you mean by PULSE system? I have asked few people and they said not to worry about it as it will not come up in garda vetting so they probably wouldn't know about it, is that true?

Should I declare these offences in my application? I now have passed my driving test so these offences will not happen again as I am no longer a learner, would this help my application?

Does this mean because of these offences I can no longer apply for citizenship as it will be refused or do you think there something can be done about it?

Thanks again for your time and input.

I don't know if you had court summon on these occasions? If you did, you need to declare them when making your application and leave the rest matter in the hands of God to touch their hearts for your good.
My wife had 2 penalty points and a fine while driving unaccompanied but without court summon and she never declared it, today she's Irish.
My advice for you is, go to Citizens Information for further advice on this matter.
Good luck on your application.

[Amjad509]

Having 2 offences of the same kind is usually considered sufficient proof of not having good character.

You have 3, therefore it’s very likely that the PULSE system has flagged you as a repeated offender. I wouldn’t have high hope to be honest.

Thank you for your reply.

Could you please tell me what you mean by PULSE system? I have asked few people and they said not to worry about it as it will not come up in garda vetting so they probably wouldn't know about it, is that true?

Should I declare these offences in my application? I now have passed my driving test so these offences will not happen again as I am no longer a learner, would this help my application?

Does this mean because of these offences I can no longer apply for citizenship as it will be refused or do you think there something can be done about it?

Thanks again for your time and input.

I don't know if you had court summon on these occasions? If you did, you need to declare them when making your application and leave the rest matter in the hands of God to touch their hearts for your good.
My wife had 2 penalty points and a fine while driving unaccompanied but without court summon and she never declared it, today she's Irish.
My advice for you is, go to Citizens Information for further advice on this matter.
Good luck on your application.

Thank you very much for your response, feeling a bit relieved now. May I ask how long before her citizenship application the offence had occurred.

As far as I know, I do not have any court summons. I also didn't have any points or fines for driving unaccompanied, only car was seized. I was expecting points for that but never got so I contacted the FCPN office and they said there are no pending points.

Do you think I should disclose these offences in my application?

[avta]

Hey,

If you not sure about what to disclose, my advice is to request all your records from Garda by filing in GDPR request about yourself.
It will give you full overview of what exactly they have in file about you and what words was officially used about your offenses if any.

[Amjad509]

Hey,

If you not sure about what to disclose, my advice is to request all your records from Garda by filing in GDPR request about yourself.
It will give you full overview of what exactly they have in file about you and what words was officially used about your offenses if any.

That is extremely useful advice thanks a lot. So you mean all the offences that's ever recorded against me will be in that and whatever offences are in it I simply need to disclose that?

Could you please guide me on how do I request my records from Gardai?

[littlerr]

Your offences will be recorded in the PULSE system and will be shown as part of Garda vetting. Whether you are summoned to court is irrelevant.

The minister will generally let go if a person has one or two minor offences. But you have three offences under the same category, so there is no way that the minister will simply ignore them. You need to make an effort to convince the minister that you are of good characters.

[mentalmind]

As part of your citizenship application you have to mention all of your communications/incidents that involves Garda.

Not listing all offences might put your application in trouble or risk of your citizenship getting revoked.

[Amjad509]

Your offences will be recorded in the PULSE system and will be shown as part of Garda vetting. Whether you are summoned to court is irrelevant.

The minister will generally let go if a person has one or two minor offences. But you have three offences under the same category, so there is no way that the minister will simply ignore them. You need to make an effort to convince the minister that you are of good characters.

What have I done

Does the PULSE system hold the records forever or are they removed after certain period of time?

Do you have any advice on what can I do or should do to better my chances of citizenship? Would getting a solicitor help?

Any advice would be much appreciated.

[littlerr]

Minor offences are considered spent after 7 years and do not need to be disclosed in most scenarios. However, applying for Irish citizenship is an exception. The criminal justice law says you must always disclose any offences when you apply for Irish citizenship, regardless of how many years it has passed.

Normally people just write a remorse letter and/or attach some reference letters from their colleagues or people (e.g. your local community, your local TD). It is up to the minister to decide whether he/she believes that the person won’t re-offend and is considered good character.

Solicitors won’t be able to increase your chance of approval but they might be able to give you some good advices as to what you should say in these letters.

[owlyowl]

Can you share a few more details on how you were stopped? I thought Garda don't really check your license, only insurance

[Amjad509]

Can you share a few more details on how you were stopped? I thought Garda don't really check your license, only insurance

I was stopped at the checkpoints. Was asked about my licence and I didn't have. I was told to get out of the car and the car was seized. But NEVER got penalty points or any fine.

[XiMi]

I got two points and €80 fine for being caught as unaccompanied driver which I paid in 2018. I submitted Citizenship application in late 2020 in which I mentioned about the one time offence of 2018. I got Garda Vetting invitation and completed two months ago. Waiting for the final decision of the ministry.

[johnpromise01]

I got two traffic offence, driving unaccompanied and driving without L. Got fined. I've already applied for my citizenship before the second offence was committed. I told my legal team about it and they said i must disclose the two offences and write a remorseful letter. I wrote the remorseful letter and my solicitor sent it to them with copy of my fine receipts. My principal solicitor categorically told me that fines and points are not major offence because i didn't go to court, but decision to approve application is at the minister's discretion.

The citizenship did not even talk about it. Now i am an Irish citizen.