EU2 or WABC- British citizen EU treaty rights in Ireland post brexit

[pal80uk]

Can someone please clarify:
1) If British citizens can continue to exercise EU treaty rights in Ireland post brexit, if they were resident in Ireland before Brexit?
2) If yes, should they apply for a permanent residency certificate under EU2 or WABC after completing 5yr residence in Ireland to confirm their status?
3) Are EU2 applications still open for British citizens who were resident in Ireland before brexit?
4) Can you please confirm again - that British citizen wont be subject to local immigration laws if they obtain PR through EU2 or WABC routes? And that, they can continue to exercise EU treaty rights post brexit and after obtaining PR?

Queries are also in relation to non-EU dependent parent's application, should they wish to apply in future, post brexit with British citizen sponsor who has been resident in Ireland before brexit.

@Obie can you please advise on above with your experience and understanding of the law in this regard. Many thanks

[alterhase58]

Can't really answer from the Irish perspective ...
but as far as I know British citizens are covered by the Common Travel Area (CTA) provisions, they didn't have a need to exercise EU Treaty Rights, either before or after brexit. Certainly for naturalisation they need to satisfy the residency requirements, just like Irish citizens in the UK. But they wouldn't have to hold UK settled status.

[Vadrar]

I get the sense you have a particular right you are looking to exercise. Of that’s the case, it might be helpful if you specify what that is. While you’re waiting for Obie, some thoughts:

My understanding is that the right for British citizens to apply for EUTR2 is unrelated to Brexit: https://www.irishimmigration.ie/wp-cont ... -EUTR2.pdf

The WA rights in Ireland were declarative (there was
No need to register to benefit from them). There was an option to register to get a physical card for proof, but this scheme has now closed.
https://www.irishimmigration.ie/wp-cont ... h-2022.pdf

The rights for family members of British depends on whether they were present before or after Brexit:
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/g ... -citizens/

British citizens present before Brexit don’t retain all EU rights - only those conferred by the Withdrawal agreement and I don’t believe any of these exceed CTA rights, which offer eg nothing for freedom of EU movement. Having permanent residency (or technically, long term residency) doesn’t affect that either way.

The EU permanent/long term residency directive benefits (eg using it to move within EU countries) does not include Ireland

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/ ... 469_EN.pdf

[pal80uk]

Thank you both for your replies.
My query relates to non-EU dependent parent's application, should they wish to apply in future, post Brexit with British citizen sponsor who has been resident in Ireland before Brexit.

Reason I ask this is to avoid conditions, such as minimum income, no benefit claims in the previous 2 years, compulsory pvt medical insurance etc etc - which are not application under the EU Treaty Rights applications.

Do above conditions go away (become not applicable), if non-EU parents were to apply after Brexit as dependant of British Citizen who has been exercising EU Treaty Rights before Brexit - under WAB scheme?

or is it same now for everyone, regardless of when they started living in Ireland and their immigration status?

[meself2]

I would suppose that these conditions are not applicable - even if you were exercising EU Treaty Rights as a British citizen before, it's gone now, which ISD clearly indicates (by issuing WA beneficiaries Stamp 4 cards, not 4EUFam).

[Vadrar]

So I think your question is: what are the conditions for family (arriving after Brexit) of a withdrawal agreement beneficiary?

If so, this Belgian site might be helpful. Obviously it isn’t Ireland, but I presume it is the same given there was only one WA:

https://dofi.ibz.be/en/themes/brexit/pr ... nt/you-are

It suggests conditions match EU rights.

“For parents: birth certificate of your child, marriage certificate or registered partnership certificate, proof of 'being dependent' unless it is a minor , proof of the family cell;
You must also prove that the family relationship or durable partnership already existed before the end of the transition period (with the exception of children born or adopted after the end of the transition period).”

[pal80uk]

Thank you both for clarifying.

Just wondering what is the process now in 2024, after Brexit, if British Citizen wants to obtain WAB status confirmed.
@Vadrar - I note in your previous message you mentioned that scheme to register to obtain physical WAB Card is now closed.

If thats the case, then is EU2 application option still available for British Citizen to obtain WABC?

If not, then is there another way, via email to EU Treaty Rights directly to request this?
Can you please advise.

[Vadrar]

Proof of residency on the day of Brexit is required - utility bills, a lease, RTB letters, Revenue letters, contribution statements etc.

Although EUTR2 requires proof of prior 5 years residency I don’t know that it would be accepted as proof of pre-Brexit residency even if the qualifying start period was before Brexit. (Happy to be corrected but I haven’t seen it used or requested.) This is possibly because you can qualify for EuTR2 with some gaps and that gap could have been at Brexit making the EUTR2 holder not a WAB beneficiary. And you can also qualify as an EU citizen rather than British citizen.

The proof of residency using eg utility bills at Brexit time for WAB seems fairly relaxed - any bill covering the month before and after seems to work (for WAB, proof of current residency requires more.)

If you are using eg utility bills you may have needed to download these at the time - some companies don’t keep records beyond a few years, especially if you change providers.

Without the WAB card many applicants have experienced the need to prove WAB status each application through time, so take care of your proof.

[Vadrar]

Actually, I’ve just read the EUTR2 application in detail again. I’ve noticed 2 things:

1) Brits need to use WAB to qualify if they don’t also have EU citizenship to qualify under Freedom of Movement
2) it does require continuous residency

So I think my comments above are not correct. Based on this form, it does look like EUTR2 could prove WAB, because you need to prove WAB to get it if British.

I’ve never heard of it being used to prove WAB, and I suspect officials may be initially confused by it (as I think it just doesn’t happen often.) But it actually may be worth applying for to get enduring proof.

I’m also wondering if this means Brits won’t be able to apply for EUTR2 once there is more than a 5 year gap to Brexit. Or if they will have to prove not 5 year continuous stay, but continuous stay became to Brexit as well as 5 years.

[Vadrar]

And I’ve found comments from Obie on this thread:

ireland/eutr2-refusal-t317171.html

[pal80uk]

Ok thanks, so British citizen should apply for WAB confirmation via EU2, as long as it includes brexit date within the last 5 years?

Have I understood this correct?

E.g. from Mar 2019 to Feb 24 - 5yrs?

Can you please confirm below to ensure i understood your point correctly that; -
To be on safer side one must apply by Dec 24, otherwise 5yr time period will lapse, since brexit date and that deadline to apply and confirm WAB status through EU2 is Dec 24?

2. Also for applicants living in Dublin, is this the only route available for them to apply for WAC status via EU2 option?

[Vadrar]

I would apply now - because why not? I don’t know what will happen for Brits and qualifying for EuTR2 after Déc 25 (5 years after Brexit) but I presume a way will be set out and the qualifying proof listed. But in immigration circles the advice is always - if you qualify now, apply now, because laws and circumstances change, prices go up, standards go up, documents get lost etc etc. And who knows how else it may come in handy later on*, especially since as you’ve discovered with the closed WABC scheme, sometimes options close.


I don’t understand your second question. I’m not sure why Dublin is relevant. But EUTR2 is NOT the only way to secure WAB. Everyone uses the same process to apply for EUTR2 though. Again, WAB in Ireland is declarative - technically nothing is required to secure them other than being resident prior to, and through, Brexit. The vast, vast majority of British have zero formal proof and enjoy their rights including bringing family using the proofs I’ve listed (eg utility bills.)

eUTR2 may be an easy of PROVING WAB, but it doesn’t confer the rights- you either have them already or you don’t. EUTR2 may well be an easier way to prove WAB status in the future because the card is more durable than utility bill print outs. I’d strongly suspect it is a smart move, but WAB British people will be bringing family over for many years in the future and won’t have it.

Personally if I was a WAB and hadn’t applied for the WABC I would apply for EUTR2 and before 5 years since Brexit (and I would keep a copy of the application form showing the relationship to WA.) But British are bringing family right now under WAB rights without EUTr2 or even a WABC, so it isn’t essential or the only way.

EUTR2 confers no additional rights to a CTA Brit who lived in Ireland through Brexit. It may help prove it WAB rights though, so I think it is a smart idea.

*As a minor point, the WABC is starting to give some (minor?) additional non-WA rights over non- card holders. For instance the WABC will remove holders of the need to register with EES and ETIAS when they arrive when entering Schengen. It’s unclear (yet) that WAB Brits without the WABC will be able to enter Schengen without registering. It’s unexpected uses like this that make me doubly agree with the ‘if you are eligible now, apply now’ maxim.

[pal80uk]

Ok thank you its very helpful.
Do you know approximately how long EUTR2 applications take to process?

In Obie's post below, someone mentioned getting WAB cert in 2 weeks, I wonder if they applied via EUTR2 route?

2. Also do u knw if non-eu dependent (visa required national) must apply from their own country - and what is processing time for those applications?
Or can they apply for visit visa first and once arrived here than apply?
Or should British citizen (WAB), visit their country and apply together to come back to ireland?

Which option is quicker and easier to apply.

[Vadrar]

This says 6 months for EUTR2 applications
https://www.irishimmigration.ie/wp-cont ... -EUTR2.pdf

As a FYI, This describes the differences between WAB family and non-WAB family rights. It clarifies you’d be applying under WAB not Freedom of Movement.
https://www.irishimmigration.ie/wp-cont ... h-2022.pdf

The application/admin process for all family of UK
Nationals (regardless of whether WAB or not) arriving now is here, so you don’t have options between faster/easier- there’s one route:
https://www.irishimmigration.ie/coming- ... ly-member/

[pal80uk]

Thanks for your response, and looks like I am now more confused.
In previous messages, from Belgian site, I understood there were no further conditions other than listed on their website as below - that it suggested conditions match EU Rights:

"If so, this Belgian site might be helpful. Obviously it isn’t Ireland, but I presume it is the same given there was only one WA:

https://dofi.ibz.be/en/themes/brexit/pr ... nt/you-are

It suggests conditions match EU rights.

“For parents: birth certificate of your child, marriage certificate or registered partnership certificate, proof of 'being dependent' unless it is a minor , proof of the family cell;
You must also prove that the family relationship or durable partnership already existed before the end of the transition period (with the exception of children born or adopted after the end of the transition period).”

But from your last post and in the last paragraph, Irish Immigration website does put further restrictions/ conditions on WAB card applications for dependent parents, which did not apply previously - and obviously do not match EU Rights application conditions. Some of the new conditions I see are as below:
1) first, applications can only be made from foreign country of residence - long stay visa D
2) British Sponsor should not have sponsored anyone else within last 7 years
3) Private medical insurance approved by HIA
4) Not on benefits at least 2years prior to the application
5) minimum income requirement for sponsor - in excess of that applied by DSP
6) Dependant parents will receive Stamp 0, (whereas previously it was equivalent to Stamp4)
7) etc etc
So is it all future applications must now meet above requirements in addition to what listed in Belgian website and prior EU applications?

[Vadrar]

I think you are best off reading the listed website slowly, and in detail. When reading the document you’ll need to check if you are reading things addressed to WAB or non-WAB, because you keep quoting passages directed at non-WAB. (Eg references to pre-clearance visas are not relevant for WAB.)

There’s 3 points made in this attachment

1) all family of UK citizens need to use this route
2) non-visa required nationals don’t need to get a pre-clearance if they are sponsored by a WAB Brit. Visa required nationals DO need a visa, just as if they were sponsored by an EEA citizen.
3) whether visa or pre-clearance-exempt
Family, WAB Brits sponsor based on WAB rights. In practice this includes when completing eg visa applications, applicants need to be careful they are selecting the WAB drop down options.

Your family need to arrive at Irish immigration with a Visit Family visa or, if pre-clearance-exempt, proof of your WAB status and their relationship to you. Within 3 months they need to register for an IRP. They’ll need documents proving eligibility aligned with the Belgian documents to register for an IRP and be issued with a WAB immigration status.

[pal80uk]

Thank you for clarifying.
Just so I’m clear, can you please confirm if below conditions don’t apply to WAB applications:

2) British Sponsor should not have sponsored anyone else within last 7 years
3) Private medical insurance approved by HIA
4) Not on benefits at least 2years prior to the application
5) minimum income requirement for sponsor - in excess of that applied by DSP
6) Dependant parents will receive Stamp 0

And that WAB dependent parent application will still receive Stamp 4?

[pal80uk]

Hi just checking if you had chance to review above? Thanks

[Vadrar]

Thank you for clarifying.
Just so I’m clear, can you please confirm if below conditions don’t apply to WAB applications:

2) British Sponsor should not have sponsored anyone else within last 7 years
3) Private medical insurance approved by HIA
4) Not on benefits at least 2years prior to the application
5) minimum income requirement for sponsor - in excess of that applied by DSP
6) Dependant parents will receive Stamp 0

And that WAB dependent parent application will still receive Stamp 4?

It will be the same as for EU applicants (because rights are protected under Withdrawal Agreement: https://commission.europa.eu/system/fil ... lained.pdf)

So just like for EU citizens exercising their freedom of movement, it will depend on your situation (eg are you working or retired or on benefits?) and whether you are talking about permitted or qualified family members (https://www.immigrantcouncil.ie/rights/ ... n#header-2)

For instance if you aren’t working and you are talking about a dependent parent you will have to have health insurance among other things, just like an EU citizen would: (https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/r ... dex_en.htm)

So you’ll have to filter EU FoM rights based on your circumstances and the family member involved and follow that rights route to work out what applies.

[Vadrar]

And if approved, they will receive a Stamp4 but not Stamp4EUFam:

https://www.irishimmigration.ie/wp-cont ... h-2022.pdf

[pal80uk]

Ok thanks you for clarifying

[Obie]

Those British Citizens, who fall under the withdrawal agreement, can continue to sponsor family members or dependents, in cases were the relationship existed before the 31-12-2020.