permission to remain

sophie4187 · Post by **sophie4187** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:11 am

hey, i live in the us and just recently got back from ireland.. my girlfriend lives there and i want to move there because i love it there and she really needs help keeping up her new place.. anyway, i've been doing research and getting really let down because from what I see, the only way to live there permanently is having a work permit. my plan was to get a permission to remain for a year and just getting it renewed because i'll have enough money to support myself for the first year and of course, i'll have a place to stay with her but the problem is, i don't know how i'll have enough to stay for the next years.. so my questions are: are you able to get a part time job with a permission to remain and is there a limit to the renewals on the permission to remain? i'm all out of ideas here.. i take college classes online so i'm fine there but i really need to find a way to stay! any help would be great! thanks!

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:27 am

What is permission to remain?

agniukas · Post by **agniukas** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:51 am

on what basis do you want to get your permission to remain? If it is on self sufficiency basis, you would get stamp 3 and would not be allowed to work. if you came as a visitor, you would be allowed to stay initially for only 3 months on stamp 3 as well. it would be up to you to convince your local immigration officer to allow you to stay longer after that.

kazinirl · Post by **kazinirl** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:55 am

sophie4187 wrote:are you able to get a part time job with a permission to remain and is there a limit to the renewals on the permission to remain?

Hi,

It depends on a purpose of your staying.
Please see this link.
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Stamps
Stamp1:Yes, you can work, but have to have work permit/Green card/Business permission/Working holiday visa
Stamp2:Yes, you can have a part time job, if you are a full-time student attending course of study recognised by the Department of Education and Science.

De Facto Relationships
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP07000278
How long have you been with your girlfriend?
What is her nationality?
If she is Irish and you've been together for more than 2years, permission to remain may granted with Stamp4 and you can work full time.

Hope this will help you.

sophie4187 · Post by **sophie4187** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:22 pm

well damn.. ok then.. if i do get a permission to remain for a year or whatever and then go home to make some more money, am i allowed to come back to ireland and apply for another one?

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:28 pm

sophie4187 wrote:well damn.. ok then.. if i do get a permission to remain for a year or whatever and then go home to make some more money, am i allowed to come back to ireland and apply for another one?

Permission to remain as what?

A visitor? A student? A worker?

astrid · Post by **astrid** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:46 pm

It is possible to get permission to remain as a long term visitor for a fixed period of time, provided you can demonstrate funds to support yourself and private health insurance, but you cannot work at all with this permission. See:

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP07000168

Other: ( e.g. retired person, long term visitor, dependant of person already residing here, etc.) If you are coming to the State and are not economically active (other than a student) but intend to remain for longer than three months in the State, then you must be in a position to show that you have the resources to cover your stay in the State without recourse to public funds, services or State benefits.

sophie4187 · Post by **sophie4187** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:05 pm

Well.. I guess I'd stay for as long as possible as a visitor because I won't be getting a work permit for now and I'm an online college student so that wouldn't count.. so would I be able to have a permission to remain for a year if I can prove that I have enough to support myself for that year? And after that, could I come back and get another permission to remain?

About the De Facto Relationship thing: If my girlfriend lives in Ireland and is an Irish citizen, how would I prove we've been together for 2 years if I have no way of living there? Would I be able to use my time from the permission to remain as proof if I helped her pay for her utilities and proved I stayed there at the house with her?

I appreciate all the help.

sophie4187 · Post by **sophie4187** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:25 pm

ok, looks like it's going to be me trying for a de facto visa.. but can i come in the summer and get a permission to remain for 6 months and then apply for the de facto visa? where do i find an application for the de facto visa? Thanks!

agniukas · Post by **agniukas** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:56 pm

what is your own nationality? are you a visa required national?
if you are not a visa required national, no visa is needed for you. all you have to do is to convince immigration officers at the airport to be let in. (mind you there were many articles recently of US nationals being returned back to US at the airport)
if you tell them you are a visitor, you may be given permission to remain for 3 months only. (3 months is the most they would give to anyone at the airport) it may be problematic to extend it. unless you tell the truth about your stay and then get that extended later.
information on defacto relationships is here:
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP07000278
It will then be up to you to provide all the evidence to support you defacto relationship application.

sophie4187 · Post by **sophie4187** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:27 pm

I'm from the United States.. We've been together since December but it's been long distance.. I do have proof from Skype history, cell phone records, airline tickets, etc. I planned on coming over in July 2010 to live on a permission to remain until we will have been together for 2 years and sharing bills, etc. That's where my questions lie now; if I go in July and apply for a permission to remain at the garda station, I will receive a stamp 3 as a visitor.. after my permission to remain is up, can I then apply for a de facto permission to remain where I will be allowed to stay and work for a year and then get renewed and so on (if I understand correctly) and my stamp 3 would be changed to a stamp 4 in that case, right? Sorry if I'm not making a lot of sense but it's just a bit confusing.. and all the help is appreciated.

Where do I apply for the de facto permission to remain or visa or whatever it's called?

Obie · Post by **Obie** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:57 pm

Documentation needed to support an Application for partners of Irish Citizens, also see information on completing an online application

sophie4187 · Post by **sophie4187** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:08 am

Thanks for the links

So that is the application that I will need to submit for the de facto?

And what about the permission to remain, stamp 3? Will I be able to receive a stamp 4 after I've gotten the stamp 3?

Obie · Post by **Obie** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:14 am

You will receive stamp 4 immediately if you are in a de facto relationship with an Irish Citizen.

Stamp 3 is usually issued to dependant of work permit holders.

Stamp 4 will award you an immediate right to work without needing to apply for a work permit.

sophie4187 · Post by **sophie4187** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:40 am

Yes, but I have only been in a relationship with my Irish girlfriend for a year so I was going to come to Ireland to live with her for the 2nd year of the relationship so that we would have proof of us living together for the 2nd year. As of right now, we are a long distance couple with proof in phone calls, skype, letters, pictures, plane tickets, etc. but I was going to come back in July and apply for a permission to remain as a visitor until we were together for 2 years and then apply for the de facto.. am I allowed to do that? That's what I mean about the stamp 3 turning into a stamp 4.. because in July, I'll get a stamp 3 for a permission to remain since we won't be together for 2 years yet and then once we are, I wondered if they would change it to a stamp 4..

Obie · Post by **Obie** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:50 am

Immediately when your circumstances change and it get acknowledged by the Irish Immigration services, you will receive a stamp 4.

Why don't you apply for a course when you come in, and probably do it until the 2 years click.

That is another legal and legit pathway, or might it not appeal to you. The resource you spend on the online course could be used on that.

sophie4187 · Post by **sophie4187** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:52 am

Ok, so it's not illegal for me to come and apply for a visitor's permission to remain and then once it becomes 2 years, go and apply for the stamp 4, de facto permission to remain? I was just worried that I'd be there for my visitor permission to remain and they wouldn't allow me to apply for the stamp 4..

Thank you for all your help..

sashasolar · Post by **sashasolar** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:49 am

sophie4187 wrote:hey, i live in the us and just recently got back from ireland.. my girlfriend lives there and i want to move there because i love it there and she really needs help keeping up her new place.. anyway, i've been doing research and getting really let down because from what I see, the only way to live there permanently is having a work permit. my plan was to get a permission to remain for a year and just getting it renewed because i'll have enough money to support myself for the first year and of course, i'll have a place to stay with her but the problem is, i don't know how i'll have enough to stay for the next years.. so my questions are: are you able to get a part time job with a permission to remain and is there a limit to the renewals on the permission to remain? i'm all out of ideas here.. i take college classes online so i'm fine there but i really need to find a way to stay! any help would be great! thanks!

Hi! Would this help you?
http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=73713

agniukas · Post by **agniukas** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:07 am

once you have a two year relationship you can apply in writing to general immigration. Nobody can stop you applying. But the fact is, that it will depend on your application and supporting documents whether or not you would get stamp 4. so far i hear that de facto applications are processed within a month, but not sure what situation will be after a year or so.

astrid · Post by **astrid** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:46 pm

Sophie, I think it's going to be really hard to get solid answers to your questions. "Permission to Remain" is a completely discretionary status. There is no formal application, you go down to GNIB with all your documents and speak to someone about your situation. They can make a decision on the spot, or (I think) they can refer it to someone at DOJ.

Because permission to remain isn't really a defined status, (Like student visa, or work permit) there aren't defined rules about how often you could ask for an extension to your permission, or for how long you can get permission. It's all dependent your individual case, and the whim of the immigration officer you speak with.

You will definitely not be allowed to work on the permission to remain as a visitor status.

De facto Relationship is also a bit murky. It's a new policy, and there is very little information published about what the DOJ accepts as evidence of a relationship, or how the view long distance relationships. There is also a single line in the DOJ info about de Facto relationships - "depending on the immigration status of the non EU partner" - that makes things very unclear. Who knows if permission to remain as a visitor is an "immigration status" that makes you eligible for de facto relationship in DOJ's eyes.

You're really throwing yourself on the mercy of the vagaries of the Irish system with this approach. It might work, it might not. I don't think there is anyone who can give you the assurances you're looking for.

I was in a similar position to you. Eventually I got a green card (which took 9 months all in all). The green card is the best option for me, but during the time that it looked like it might not come through, I looked at other options. Registering as a student was the simplest way to get legal residence in the country, and the ability to work part time.

Registering as a student allows you to work up to 20 hours per week during the term and 40 during break. We know that people have moved from Student to De facto in the last few months.

There are some private colleges that are much less expensive than the large Unis and offer very flexible courses. You might find something that interests you, or compliments your existing studies.

It really depends on your tolerance for risk, how committed you are to your current program of study, and if you have the resources to pay for a program of study in Ireland. Permission to remain is cheap and risky, student is more expensive but more secure.

You can PM me if you'd like to chat about this.

kazinirl · Post by **kazinirl** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:22 pm

I totally agree with astrid, and I can only tell you that a friend of mine got "de fact" from visitor status last year.
But it all will depend on your situation and an immigration officer.

sophie4187 · Post by **sophie4187** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:08 pm

Alright.. thanks for everyones help. I e-mailed the Garda Station in Dublin. I just don't know how I would be able to live with her and therefore prove joint accounts and all that if I can't get a permission to remain as a visitor first. I have tons of proof of the long distance relationship and I've heard of that working.. I've got a while anyway, next September it will be 2 years but I'm just trying to get everything straightened out before hand and hopefully moving to Ireland in July for a 6 month visitor permission to remain and getting that changed to de facto once it turns to a 2 year relationship!

highstoolhero · Post by **highstoolhero** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:07 am

Since the 1st of July all visitors through Dublin Airport are having a "non renewable" stamp put in their passport. Therefore if you arrive as a visitor your permission to remain cannot be extended by an immigration officer. You will have to leave and re-enter after 90 days.

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:14 am

highstoolhero wrote:Since the 1st of July all visitors through Dublin Airport are having a "non renewable" stamp put in their passport. Therefore if you arrive as a visitor your permission to remain cannot be extended by an immigration officer. You will have to leave and re-enter after 90 days.

Interesting. Can anyone spot the problem with this?

highstoolhero · Post by **highstoolhero** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:23 am

Well the first query would be why is this only being issued by Dublin Airport and no other port of entry. Registration officers cannot renew such a stamp without a direction from Dept. of Justice.

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