My TIRE 2 Employer License Revoked

[vinith]

Hello Everyone,

I am currently working for a TIRE 2 Umbrella Company and their license has been revoked due to some issue and we(Employees) haven't got any letters from UKBA and Our Company is running as normal and we are getting paid like before without any issues. My Employer said this case is in court and will be sorted soon and not to worry. I have checked TIRE 2 list of sponsors in UKBA and our company name is not there anymore.
My Questions are:

1. Because our company is not in sponsors list anymore is that mean existing employees are fine but company cant take any new employees?
2. I am planning to Visit India in December for 3 weeks and can I travel on existing company visa and able to come back(because case is in court)?
3. If I switch to any other company do they need to go through RLMT(Resident Labour Market Test) to sponsor and employee me(I have converted from PSW to TIRE 2).

Please let me know ASAP

Cheers

[sarathml86]

be careful i would advise not to leave the Uk with this situation until this is sorted, I know some one in similar situation and they were not allowed to enter in to the uk. you are allowed to stay 60days in the uk if your sponsors license is cancelled

you should find a job suitable for sposorship, if that job is in shortage occupation list then you dont need to go for labor market test , if other wise the job needs to be advertised for 28days

all the best

[vinith]

Thanks for your message. I am not sure when this license has been revoked because our employer havent informed any one and things are going as normal like before. All he said is I am allowed to work under company because I am existing employee because case is in court?
because my employer has filed a court case within time I think I am legally allowed to work. Correct me if I am wrong on this?

[Learner28]

Thanks for your message. I am not sure when this license has been revoked because our employer havent informed any one and things are going as normal like before. All he said is I am allowed to work under company because I am existing employee because case is in court?
because my employer has filed a court case within time I think I am legally allowed to work. Correct me if I am wrong on this?

yes after filling for judicial review, your solicitor can fill a form for interim remedy or interim order, if the judge accepts your argument of retaining existing employees, he ll grant authorization of retaining existing sponsored employees. In that case you can still work till the outcome of the decision.

[Frontier Mole]

I can assure you your employer has not got interim relief and is basically just telling you a pack of lies.
You your self have pointed to the fact that it is an umbrella company which is illegal for the operation of tier 2 licence.
The bottom line is simple in your case, you can continue to work until your curtailment letter arrives stating when you can no longer work. Your employer can carry on employing you until that date legally as there is nothing in the guidance that prevents that even though they have been revoked!!

[manci]

@Frontier Mole
IMHO revocation of the licence means that the sponsor is no longer licenced to employ migrant workers and the sponsor, not the migrant, is breaking the law if the employment continues.

The template of the curtailment letter the migrant will receive is on p149:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... .0_EXT.pdf

[tier2hunter]

Hi manci,
I am in the same situation and need your advise.
I was also working for an umbrella company (Company A) and they outsourced me
to client place (Company B).After reading these post here, I can understand
it's illegal, but as it's difficult to stay in UK without a job, i am doing it.

Now, Company A's license is revoked recently (2nd Dec, 2014) and they informed
me the same last friday(5th Dec, 2014) and asking me to continue working for the
client company till I get the certailment letter and not to inform Company B now about the situation.

But Company B also wants to sponsor me and planning to apply for license beginning
of next year. I am just worrying as my company A's license is revoked, Is it
advisable or legal to continue working for Company B till I get the curtailment letter. In case,
if they want to sponsor me, they might get into problem as my current company's
license is revoked while enquiring by Home office for any reason and appointing
someone after license of parent company is revoked ? I am really tensed and confused what to do as the message has to be conveyed by my current employer that they don't want to do as they will stop making money.
Please provide your opinion on the same.

[Frontier Mole]

Honesty is the best policy between you and company B.
They need to apply for a licence ASAP.and then you can regularize your position.
Not telling company B leaves you in a vulnerable position for the future and lets face it company A just wants the money you generate until you cannot work for them anymore.

[manci]

It is not a condition of your leave that your sponsor keeps their licence throughout the period of your leave and IMHO you will not be working illegally until your leave, which will be curtailed, expires. However, when you explain the situation to company B they may need convincing that this is the case.
Refer them to the prevention of illegal working and the T2 policy guidances neither of which state that it is illegal to carry on employment until the expiry of a curtailed leave.

[Frontier Mole]

Totally agree with Manci.
The guidance does not state that a Sponsor has to terminate their tier 2 Employees at the point their licence is revoked.
The guidance is silent on that point.
In simple terms you can carry on working for company A until the 60th day date on your curtailment letter, once it is received.
Be mindful of the fact you are complicit in the matter as you are fully aware of the umbrella status of your contracting. The faster you change to company B the better as you could receive a 28 day curtailment letter based on your complicity. Unlikely to happen but better to be sure than sorry.

[dxbtouk]

Guys , any idea why the license is revoked ?

I work for an Umbrella company as well and i am worried that it would happen to me as these days if the employer fails to perform even one duty straight away they are cancelling the license . Can you guys please throw some light on this . Thanks .

[Sheffield_Marketeer]

The reason why these licenses are getting revoked is because the Tier 2 Policy was not created with the use of umbrella companies in mind. That was not the spirit of the Tier 2. Umbrella Companies are a creation to circumvent immigration laws and it is no wonder that there will be a crackdown on such operations. Seniors will pitch in with their perspective.

[dxbtouk]

Another way of seeing this is , How can UKBA know weather a company is Umbrella or a service provider ? Because when your sponsor is paying all the related taxes and keeping in compliance with the Tier.2 regulations then is there still question of revoking the license ?

Please throw some light here too . Thanks .

[Sheffield_Marketeer]

The UKVI is a body made of personnel whose responsibility is to safeguard the country's border. As such they have means to keep track of how the sponsoring bodies are upto the mark when it comes to fulfilling their sponsorship duties. They do spot checks and regular checks even otherwise. They are well within their means and capabilities to smell out a umbrella company from a regular sponsor.

[tier2hunter]

Thank Frontier and Manci for clarifying it.
I will speak to my client and try to convince them
My main worry part is - my current employer is telling as license is revoked,
we will not issue salary slip and P45 will be generated till
2nd Dec, 2014 (date of revoked) and will pay money as expenses.
Is that fine till the time I am working for client from current employer ?

[Frontier Mole]

So not only is your Sponsor operating illegally for immigration purposes they now intend to defraud HMRC too.
An outstanding organisation....

Don't accept their proposal in regards payment of salary as expenses for a number of reasons
If the tax and NI is not being paid on your salary then that is deliberate tax evasion.
You knowingly accepting that makes you as guilty as they are and if discovered YOU will be liable for the tax and NI.
They will be still taking their lovely fat cut out of your charge out rate for doing nothing but it is you that is taking all the risk.

If company A are not going to carry on operating on a normal footing until your curtailment end date they are just filling their pockets and there is nothing you can do about it if they keep the money. You will not have an employment contact as by default your employment has ceased as of 2/12 @by your employers reckoning so any funds paid after that is not pay.... No legal entitlement so the employer can argue that "expenses " are not due etc.

This circumstance is common for these companies, if there is only contractor employment they will soak you all and walk away.

[tier2hunter]

Thanks Frontier.
It's not upto me now. I talked to my current employer today and
It seems employer has already informed HMRC about my terminate
after license was revoked and asking me to get expenses as they can't
issue any salary slip. He also told it's not 2nd Dec, it's 2nd Nov, 2014(changing his words).
So, no salary slip from 2nd Nov, 2014(more than 1 month over), but Nov's salary without slip.
I have not received my curtailment letter yet.

I talked to my client company today about revocation of
license, but did not tell about salary. They want to process
the sponsorship asap, but they are not aware of all policies and
will take some time to proceed on the same.

Will it be good to continue with the client till I get
my curtailment letter (difficult to stay in UK without money)
and as I am not paying tax too ?
Will it impact when I apply for new VISA and anytime in future ?
Shall I ask my employer to close the contract asap ?
I am really scared now and in confusion what to do and what not
to do.
It's a mistake already done by me joining these consultancy and
working on contract as I was not aware of it before. This group has
really helped me to get my doubt clarified. Thanks to everyone.
I wanted to come out of this asap and join the client company as
they are ready to sponsor me. Looking forward your advice.

[tier2hunter]

Anyone, please advice what to do in this case.

[Sheffield_Marketeer]

I believe that after you receive your curtailment letter, you should be able to start looking for a new job, in this case the client company.
As for you working for the client company, I see it as a grey area as they are not sponsoring you but your visa status is a Tier 2 still (without the curtailment letter) AND you are eligible to work for your current employer only (umbrella company) AND not the client company.

[Frontier Mole]

To be blunt as he is no longer employed by his sponsor he can not work, end of. Like many others he took his chance with contracting and now is in a mess. His sponsor is taking his money, he is working illegally for both company A & B.
There is only one outcome from this and that is the OP is going to find himself unemployed and unemployable because he knew he was entering a contract role.
The chances of company B of getting a licence anytime soon are nil as they are dragging their feet. They will have to do a RLMT as well. There will be a noted connection between the Sponsor and the OP so that will cause an issue to.
The HMRC checks performed at the point if the new application will show no earnings for however many months upto new Visa application. But the bank account will show funds going in.
It is just a complete mess.
If the OP survives the process he will be very lucky.
Advising him he can work when he can't is not going to help him.
Holding a tier 2 visa for a company that has expressly stated he is no longer an employee to HMRC does not make it ok to carry on working just because he does not have a curtailment letter.

[tier2hunter]

Hi Frontier,
Thanks for detailed explanation. your reply really scares me a lot.
So, It means it's an end for me in UK even after my current employer closed the contract immediately.
It's not my mistake right as employer not paying tax and not closing the contract by not informing the
client company yet. So, even if my client gets the license and pass RLMT and assign CoS, I will not be able to
get Tier 2 VISA again if scrutinized by HMRC and HO.
If there is any chance, Please let me know. Thanks for your advice in advance.
Did anyone from this group face this problem earlier, Please let me know.

[tier2hunter]

Hi frontier,
Please suggest if it's an end for me in uk. I don't want to cheat my client as they really want to help. If there is no solution to try for new visa, I will go back to home country and wanted to give a lesson to my current emplorer - Any way to lesson him, tell me? Please suggest if there is any solution.

[Frontier Mole]

Unless company B gets a licence there is nothing else you can do except to refuse to work for company A - which will put the whole circumstance into even more of a mess UNLESS you can ger company B to treat you as a self employed contractor and they pay you directly.
You are already working illegally so it makes no difference what route you try. Better to make gain for yourself rather than further line the pockets of the Sponsor.
As for teaching company A a lesson, there is little that will worry them. They will fold the company once they have all the money they can get their hands on and smile all the way to the bank. Reporting them to HMRC might get a result for tax evasion but unlikely as they wont investigate if there is relatively small amounts involved. And it also brings attention to yourself.

How many of your colleagues were sponsored?

The Sponsors dont care about you or anyone in your postion. Like the rest of the umbrella company sponsors are in it for the money and nothing else. They sold you on like a slave and when it all goes wrong they just walk away. It is not their problem that you cant readily remain in the UK. I bet they said there is nothing we can do, but they want you work as long as possibly so they can get as much out of it as they can.
The curtailment letter will take weeks to come and what are you going to do in the meantime. Your best option is to find a Sponsor that can take asap because company B are not a good bet.
If that is not a likely outcome and if your going to run out of money in a couple of months then you are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Unfortunately your position is a sad story being increasingly repeated. The umbrella companies are being chased hard and that will continue because it is like following ants. Smash one decent sized umbrella company and watch where the tier 2's go - that gives you the next target and so on.
New HMRC rules and the fact that UKVI and HMRC work together now is narrowing the scope for the umbrella companies.
Do I think you should go home, NO, not until you are sure there is no possibility of remaining as a tier 2 employee.
You can remain legally in the UK until the 60th day as advised on your curtailment letter, once you finally get it. Do all you can to make it work for you. If you suceed and get a proper role good luck.

[tier2hunter]

Thanks Frontier for explaining in details.
There are around 8 employees working under the same sponsor for different client.

In last few days, I spent some time going through all the policies of Tier 2 and guidance to CaseWorkers and
trying to understand when the caseworker might refuse it and have few queries. Please advise.

1.
In Immigration Rules part 9: grounds for refusal, it says
323AA Prohibited changes to employment for Tier 2 Migrants and Tier 5
Migrants11
The following are prohibited changes, unless a further application for leave to remain is granted
which expressly permits the changes:
(a) The migrant is absent from work without pay for one calendar month or more in total
(whether over a single period or more than one period), during anycalendar year (1
January to 31 December).

Do I come under this category as I did not get salary for 1 or more months,
but i was waiting for curtailment also?

2. You mentioned Company B treating me as self employed and pay me directly. Is that possible in Tier 2(G) ? As per my knowledge, I think Tier 2(G) migant can't be self-employed. please correct me.

3. As my current employer already informed HMRC about removing me from their payroll. Is it possible for them to re-add, saying it was done by mistake as not aware of complete policy after license was revoked.
Can I request my current employer to do that and is it possible ?

From your previous message, I am encouraging myself not to leave UK untill I am confirmed that I can't continue here.
I am just trying to make my case strong to get sponsored as my client is really helping and
has already applied for license to sponsor me. You mentioned "company B are not a good bet" - why?,
-I can't cheat them too finding different employer if they get license and successfully assign CoS to help me.

At the same time, You know it's really difficult to find a sponsor who wants to sponsor Tier 2.

Looking forward to your guidance.

[Frontier Mole]

I thought company B were dragging their feet, if that is not the case get them to put out the RLMT job advert ASAP as this will speed the process as they can assign you the COS as soon as they get licence. That assumes that there is no other suitable candidates
You can't get too wound up about what a caseworker will or will not do.
Get through the first part getting the Sponsor licence. If that is in place then your 70% there.
If you have not received a curtailment letter by that point even better.
Thereafter you are in the lap of the gods. Submit your visa application at a PEO for a fast turn around and that gives less scope to sit and worry too.