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Hi all, looking for some input into this murky situation. Any and all information welcome!

My finace and I are both from New Zealand and looking to move over to London next year. I'm good to go as I have a British passport, and she can apply for a Commonwealth Visa so no real issue there. What we're wondering is this:

She is a Welsh citizen (therefore UK citizen) by birth - her birth mother is Welsh and lives in the UK. But she was adopted out to a New Zealand family with no British ties at all. We were under the impression that because of the adoption - legally - she is not entitled to a British passport. However, she was recently told that she should be able to apply for an Ancestry Visa citing her biological ancestors as evidence.

Because of this, we're now wondering why she would be able to apply for that and not outright apply for a British passport. As I said, it's a very murky situation and we can't get any straight answers. A lot of the requirements talk about children adopted into British families, but never the reverse.

Please enlighten us knowledgeable forum dwellers!

starjammer wrote:Hi all, looking for some input into this murky situation. Any and all information welcome!

My finace and I are both from New Zealand and looking to move over to London next year. I'm good to go as I have a British passport, and she can apply for a Commonwealth Visa so no real issue there. What we're wondering is this:

She is a Welsh citizen (therefore UK citizen) by birth - her birth mother is Welsh and lives in the UK. But she was adopted out to a New Zealand family with no British ties at all. We were under the impression that because of the adoption - legally - she is not entitled to a British passport. However, she was recently told that she should be able to apply for an Ancestry Visa citing her biological ancestors as evidence.

Because of this, we're now wondering why she would be able to apply for that and not outright apply for a British passport. As I said, it's a very murky situation and we can't get any straight answers. A lot of the requirements talk about children adopted into British families, but never the reverse.

Please enlighten us knowledgeable forum dwellers!

Those who were born in the UK before 1983 are automatically British.

D4109125 wrote:Those who were born in the UK before 1983 are automatically British.

Sorry, I should've clarified. She wasn't born in the UK - she was born in New Zealand, after 1983.

If she acquired British citizenship by descent (automatically at birth) then being adopted out to non-British parents did not cause loss of citizenship.

If her birth mother was born in the United Kingdom, and she can show the link to her natural mother, then I see no reason why she should not be determined as a British citizen.

Perhaps use form NS to get a certificate of British nationality status from the Home Office.

JAJ wrote:If she acquired British citizenship by descent (automatically at birth) then being adopted out to non-British parents did not cause loss of citizenship.

If her birth mother was born in the United Kingdom, and she can show the link to her natural mother, then I see no reason why she should not be determined as a British citizen.

Perhaps use form NS to get a certificate of British nationality status from the Home Office.

Thanks for that JAJ, we'll look into it. It is definitely a unique situation that doesn't seem to fit any of the neat bureaucratic boxes. I do hope she can claim her natural British citizenship. She keeps in regular touch with her biological mother and their family, and we'll even be staying with her our first few weeks in London. So surely that counts for something haha


She has access to her natural mother's birth cert and her original birth cert - will any papers relating to the adoption be necessary also? Paperwork!

starjammer wrote: Thanks for that JAJ, we'll look into it. It is definitely a unique situation that doesn't seem to fit any of the neat bureaucratic boxes. I do hope she can claim her natural British citizenship. She keeps in regular touch with her biological mother and their family, and we'll even be staying with her our first few weeks in London. So surely that counts for something

It's not a unique situation.

Since there is no provision in the British Nationality Act 1981 for involuntary loss of citizenship pursuant to adoption, then all she has to do is show she acquired British citizenship at birth from her natural mother. What happened subsequent to birth is irrelevant from a nationality standpoint.

She has access to her natural mother's birth cert and her original birth cert - will any papers relating to the adoption be necessary also? Paperwork!

She will likely need her adoption papers (at least, copies of them) because all of her ID is (presumably) going to be in her adoptive name and the Passport Service will need to see evidence that she is the rightful owner of her original birth certificate.

JAJ wrote:Since there is no provision in the British Nationality Act 1981 for involuntary loss of citizenship pursuant to adoption, then all she has to do is show she acquired British citizenship at birth from her natural mother. What happened subsequent to birth is irrelevant from a nationality standpoint.

Thanks JAJ. I need to draw on your knowledge one last time (new info has come into light).

Does it matter that her natural mother only had a NZ birth certificate at the time of my finace's birth (which was in NZ)? She got her British passport later on in life.

Am I right in assuming if my finace has the following documents, she has a chance at getting a British passport:

• fiance's birth cert (NZ - original, and adoptive)
  adoption papers
  natural mother's birth cert (NZ)
  natural mother's British passport number
  natural grandfather's birth cert (Welsh)
  natural grandparent's marriage cert

starjammer wrote: Thanks JAJ. I need to draw on your knowledge one last time (new info has come into light).

Does it matter that her natural mother only had a NZ birth certificate at the time of my finace's birth (which was in NZ)? She got her British passport later on in life.

Am I right in assuming if my finace has the following documents, she has a chance at getting a British passport:

• fiance's birth cert (NZ - original, and adoptive)
  adoption papers
  natural mother's birth cert (NZ)
  natural mother's British passport number
  natural grandfather's birth cert (Welsh)
  natural grandparent's marriage cert

So the natural mother was born in New Zealand, not Wales? That means the natural mother is a British citizen by descent and her British citizenship did not automatically pass on further.

Look at the documentation required for a British passport - you should see that it (normally) requires the parent's British birth or naturalisation certificate.

JAJ wrote:So the natural mother was born in New Zealand, not Wales? That means the natural mother is a British citizen by descent and her British citizenship did not automatically pass on further.

Look at the documentation required for a British passport - you should see that it (normally) requires the parent's British birth or naturalisation certificate.

Yes, she was born in NZ. Ok, thanks for that. In an unrelated case I came across this: From 13 January 2010, children born outside the UK of a British citizen by descent "can be registered under section 3(2) of the British Nationality Act 1981 if an application is made at any time before the child's 18th birthday." - my sister hasn't got her British passport yet, but she can become a British citizen by descent (like me). She has a 3-year-old son, so I'm trying to future-proof him for later life travels haha. He should be able to get a British passport so long as she claims her British citizenship by descent before and he applies before his 18th birthday - correct?