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hi all

fist i have to say a big thank you to D102030 something like that, the work he done on constructing the naturalization with offences are un-parallel .

for security reason i remove these text, but if you want any details,

please pm me, i will send u the details

macjackbauer wrote:hi all

fist i have to say a big thank you to D102030 something like that, the work he done on constructing the naturalization with offences are un-parallel .

i have 2 conviction both went to court and fined in 2010

i have driving with no insurance and fine 200 6 points in 2010 too.

i have around 6000 pounds credit card debt, buy i have paid off one around 1500 poudns

but anyway today i got the letter say my citizenship has been granted.

if you have any other question just ask me, i will explain to you as detailed as possible.

Well done I'm glad the British Citizenship – Good Character Requirement FAQs helped and by your success, all the information seems to be correct, and they followed it well.

D4109125 wrote:

macjackbauer wrote:hi all

fist i have to say a big thank you to D102030 something like that, the work he done on constructing the naturalization with offences are un-parallel .

i have 2 conviction both went to court and fined in 2010

i have driving with no insurance and fine 200 6 points in 2010 too.

i have around 6000 pounds credit card debt, buy i have paid off one around 1500 poudns

but anyway today i got the letter say my citizenship has been granted.

if you have any other question just ask me, i will explain to you as detailed as possible.

Well done I'm glad the British Citizenship – Good Character Requirement FAQs helped and by your success, all the information seems to be correct, and they followed it well.

mate believed or not, when i lost all the hope, want to rack everthing my computer all that, but you give me the hope

Hi D102030, Guru's

My Naturalisation application is refused today on the grounds of 'Non-Custodial Conviction' (Speeding SP50 from the court). I was convicted for speeding on Jan 2012 and UKBA has refused my applcation based on only 'ONE MINOR' conviction.

According to- 'British Citizenship – Good Character Requirement Common Questions' - Q8 - they should have dis-regarded this single minor conviction which resulted in £180 fine and 4 points. But, I was unlucky and declined citizenship. They have asked me to re-apply in Jan 2015 when this conviction gets spent.

Do you think UKBA has done any mistake? Should I appeal against it using a Solicitor?

Thanks

I don't think a speeding conviction is considered a 'minor' offence but I could be wrong. I'll let the gurus give their opinion.

I explained the risk you were taking in applying. You were depending on the discretion of the caseworker to disregard the one minor conviction, however, it was a reckless offence, speeding, and it didn't succeed.

You have no appeal right. You coud ask for a reconsideration (£80) but you'd have to give compelling reasons why they should disregard your conviction, such as you were rushing to the hospital for example, but then even that will be clutching at straws. I'm sorry you were not successful.

Astrid24 wrote:I don't think a speeding conviction is considered a 'minor' offence but I could be wrong. I'll let the gurus give their opinion.

This is from the CW guidance notes:

3.3When minor convictions may be disregarded
3.3.1 Where the applicant is of good character in all other respects
caseworkers should normally be prepared to overlook a single minor unspent conviction resulting in:
a. a bind over order
b. an absolute or conditional discharge
c. admonition
d.a relatively small fine or compensation order.
e. a fixed penalty notice and Scottish fiscal fines-these fines are not classed as convictions and as such do not come within a sentence based threshold (see paragraphs3.5.2 and 3.6.4).

3.3.2 Caseworkers should not normally disregard any conviction that falls into the following categories irrespective of the severity of the sentence imposed:
a.Offences involving dishonesty (for example,theft, fraud)
b. Offences involving violence
c. Offences involving unlawful sexual activity
d. Offences involving drugs
e. Offences which would constitute “recklessness”–
for example,drink-driving, excessive speeding, driving without tax/insurance or whilst using a mobile phone.
(NB Caseworkers should remember that fixed penalty notices do not c
onstitute offences –see paragraph 3.5.2).

3.5 Non-Custodial Penalties Fines
3.5.1
In determining whether an applicant meets the "good character" requirement, caseworkers must take any fine a person has received into account


Section 303.1.d - clearly says relatively small fines should be dis-regarded. I think my case should fall under this category. But, it seems they have classified it under 3.3.2.e - "recklessness - excessive speeding" and refused.

Did you go to court for SP50? If yes, then read Q5 from the FAQ and you'll have the answer.

arun1509 wrote:

Astrid24 wrote:I don't think a speeding conviction is considered a 'minor' offence but I could be wrong. I'll let the gurus give their opinion.

This is from the CW guidance notes:

3.3When minor convictions may be disregarded
3.3.1 Where the applicant is of good character in all other respects
caseworkers should normally be prepared to overlook a single minor unspent conviction resulting in:
a. a bind over order
b. an absolute or conditional discharge
c. admonition
d.a relatively small fine or compensation order.
e. a fixed penalty notice and Scottish fiscal fines-these fines are not classed as convictions and as such do not come within a sentence based threshold (see paragraphs3.5.2 and 3.6.4).

3.3.2 Caseworkers should not normally disregard any conviction that falls into the following categories irrespective of the severity of the sentence imposed:
a.Offences involving dishonesty (for example,theft, fraud)
b. Offences involving violence
c. Offences involving unlawful sexual activity
d. Offences involving drugs
e. Offences which would constitute “recklessness”–
for example,drink-driving, excessive speeding, driving without tax/insurance or whilst using a mobile phone.
(NB Caseworkers should remember that fixed penalty notices do not c
onstitute offences –see paragraph 3.5.2).

3.5 Non-Custodial Penalties Fines
3.5.1
In determining whether an applicant meets the "good character" requirement, caseworkers must take any fine a person has received into account


Section 303.1.d - clearly says relatively small fines should be dis-regarded. I think my case should fall under this category. But, it seems they have classified it under 3.3.2.e - "recklessness - excessive speeding" and refused.

The word is may not should.

D4109125 wrote:I explained the risk you were taking in applying. You were depending on the discretion of the caseworker to disregard the one minor conviction, however, it was a reckless offence, speeding, and it didn't succeed.

You have no appeal right. You coud ask for a reconsideration (£80) but you'd have to give compelling reasons why they should disregard your conviction, such as you were rushing to the hospital for example, but then even that will be clutching at straws. I'm sorry you were not successful.

Yes Amber, I think they have considered it as "recklessness" and didn't show any mercy. Does this convictiong gets listed in CRB?? If yes, not sure why they didn't raise concern in my ILR in May 2012.

I was driving back to London from Scotland when this incident happened. I don't think that would be a good enough reason to justify speeding and apply for reconsideration. I think i need to wait until 2015 and hopefully I don't pick up any other conviction..

arun1509 wrote:

Astrid24 wrote:I don't think a speeding conviction is considered a 'minor' offence but I could be wrong. I'll let the gurus give their opinion.

This is from the CW guidance notes:

3.3When minor convictions may be disregarded
3.3.1 Where the applicant is of good character in all other respects
caseworkers should normally be prepared to overlook a single minor unspent conviction resulting in:
a. a bind over order
b. an absolute or conditional discharge
c. admonition
d.a relatively small fine or compensation order.
e. a fixed penalty notice and Scottish fiscal fines-these fines are not classed as convictions and as such do not come within a sentence based threshold (see paragraphs3.5.2 and 3.6.4).

3.3.2 Caseworkers should not normally disregard any conviction that falls into the following categories irrespective of the severity of the sentence imposed:
a.Offences involving dishonesty (for example,theft, fraud)
b. Offences involving violence
c. Offences involving unlawful sexual activity
d. Offences involving drugs
e. Offences which would constitute “recklessness”–
for example,drink-driving, excessive speeding, driving without tax/insurance or whilst using a mobile phone.
(NB Caseworkers should remember that fixed penalty notices do not c
onstitute offences –see paragraph 3.5.2).

3.5 Non-Custodial Penalties Fines
3.5.1
In determining whether an applicant meets the "good character" requirement, caseworkers must take any fine a person has received into account


Section 303.1.d - clearly says relatively small fines should be dis-regarded. I think my case should fall under this category. But, it seems they have classified it under 3.3.2.e - "recklessness - excessive speeding" and refused.

Well, there it is. Caseworkers should NOT normally disregard offences such as speeding even if it only resulted in a fine and points. Also, it hasn't been 3 years from your convinction date yet so that probably added to the reason for refusal. Sorry you were refused, mate. Bad luck.

ban.s wrote:Did you go to court for SP50? If yes, then read Q5 from the FAQ and you'll have the answer.

Sage - I was not given FPN. I was directly served NIP (Notice of Intended Prosecution) and referred to the court. I pleaded guilty by post and paid the fine. The court later convicted me with fine and points.

You've already lost nearly £900. If you want to spend another £80 you can ask for a reconsideration, there is a very small amount of discretion still left even for excessive speeding. Something compelling would help, was there any particularly stressful things happening at the time?

D4109125 wrote:You've already lost nearly £900. If you want to spend another £80 you can ask for a reconsideration, there is a very small amount of discretion still left even for excessive speeding. Something compelling would help, was there any particularly stressful things happening at the time?

I have been to Scotland with my parents who have come from India for holiday. It was late in the afternoon and I was just trying to reach back to London asap. Since my parents are old and not used to long drive in a stretch, that's the reason why I did speeding. Not sure if this reason would justify.

macjackbauer wrote:hi all

fist i have to say a big thank you to D102030 something like that, the work he done on constructing the naturalization with offences are un-parallel .

i have 2 conviction both went to court and fined in 2010

i have driving with no insurance and fine 200 6 points in 2010 too.

i have around 6000 pounds credit card debt, buy i have paid off one around 1500 poudns

but anyway today i got the letter say my citizenship has been granted.

if you have any other question just ask me, i will explain to you as detailed as possible.

Congratulations! What was the date on the approval letter you received yesterday?

arun1509 wrote:

D4109125 wrote:I explained the risk you were taking in applying. You were depending on the discretion of the caseworker to disregard the one minor conviction, however, it was a reckless offence, speeding, and it didn't succeed.

You have no appeal right. You coud ask for a reconsideration (£80) but you'd have to give compelling reasons why they should disregard your conviction, such as you were rushing to the hospital for example, but then even that will be clutching at straws. I'm sorry you were not successful.

Yes Amber, I think they have considered it as "recklessness" and didn't show any mercy. Does this convictiong gets listed in CRB?? If yes, not sure why they didn't raise concern in my ILR in May 2012.

I was driving back to London from Scotland when this incident happened. I don't think that would be a good enough reason to justify speeding and apply for reconsideration. I think i need to wait until 2015 and hopefully I don't pick up any other conviction..

Well I think it might be worth the £80 it's a 'shot in the dark' but I think now you have lost £900 another £80 is worth a go. I would write a letter (click)explaining that you were travelling back with your elderly parents who were not feeling well with the long drive from Scotland to London along the motorway and were stressed out, and just for a moment your concentration lapsed and you speeded. Explain that you were deeply sorry for your conduct and immediately accepted guilt when you were sent the notice. Explain you are a good member of society who is actively involved and it means so much for you to become British. Explain that you understand that the HO should not normally consider disregarding speeding but you were issued with a relatively small fine and points and could they please consider their discretion and grant you citizenship. It might only stand a 1% chance of success but the discretion is there to be used albeit it likely, a rare occurrence.

Dear macjackbauer,

When did you apply?
When did you get your approval?
What kind of documentation did you submit while disclosing your convictions?

Complete details will help remove the concerns surrounding convictions, time frame and the decision making process.

Congrads and Best Wishes.
VR

gadgets wrote:

macjackbauer wrote:hi all

fist i have to say a big thank you to D102030 something like that, the work he done on constructing the naturalization with offences are un-parallel .

i have 2 conviction both went to court and fined in 2010

i have driving with no insurance and fine 200 6 points in 2010 too.

i have around 6000 pounds credit card debt, buy i have paid off one around 1500 poudns

but anyway today i got the letter say my citizenship has been granted.

if you have any other question just ask me, i will explain to you as detailed as possible.

Congratulations! What was the date on the approval letter you received yesterday?

the date is 17/june on letter and i received on the 21st

D4109125 wrote:I explained the risk you were taking in applying. You were depending on the discretion of the caseworker to disregard the one minor conviction, however, it was a reckless offence, speeding, and it didn't succeed.

You have no appeal right. You coud ask for a reconsideration (£80) but you'd have to give compelling reasons why they should disregard your conviction, such as you were rushing to the hospital for example, but then even that will be clutching at straws. I'm sorry you were not successful.

Hi "D4109125" - Amber
My question to you is what if this was already spent ie 3yrs had past, would this application been successful or down to the HO discretion? If down to discretion then why tell him wait until 2015 for another discretion review? They are asking him to reapply when this conviction is spent, yet is appears that good character spent and unspent is interpreted differently by case workers. Others have been successful with worst convictions. This inconsistency is disturbing to say the least.....

PS Arun sorry to hear you plight hope you get a better outcome with a review. This is like one driving mistake and you get a 3yr sentence for BC .

Heisgood wrote:

D4109125 wrote:I explained the risk you were taking in applying. You were depending on the discretion of the caseworker to disregard the one minor conviction, however, it was a reckless offence, speeding, and it didn't succeed.

You have no appeal right. You coud ask for a reconsideration (£80) but you'd have to give compelling reasons why they should disregard your conviction, such as you were rushing to the hospital for example, but then even that will be clutching at straws. I'm sorry you were not successful.

Hi "D4109125" - Amber
My question to you is what if this was already spent ie 3yrs had past, would this application been successful or down to the HO discretion? If down to discretion then why tell him wait until 2015 for another discretion review? They are asking him to reapply when this conviction is spent, yet is appears that good character spent and unspent is interpreted differently by case workers. Others have been successful with worst convictions. This inconsistency is disturbing to say the least.....

PS Arun sorry to hear you plight hope you get a better outcome with a review. This is like one driving mistake and you get a 3yr sentence for BC .

After 3 years it would have been almost certain to succeed but before this, it relies on discretion. Under the old rules it would have resulted in a refusal for 5 years, so things are somewhat better.

D4109125 wrote: You have no appeal right. You coud ask for a reconsideration (£80) but you'd have to give compelling reasons why they should disregard your conviction, such as you were rushing to the hospital for example.

A decision has been made in court of law, after hearing the prosecutions, defence, and any mitigation from defence. A caseworker is in no position to revisit the court decision. If a conviction has been regarded as reckless, then they will always regard it as reckless.

Ayyubi72 wrote:

D4109125 wrote: You have no appeal right. You coud ask for a reconsideration (£80) but you'd have to give compelling reasons why they should disregard your conviction, such as you were rushing to the hospital for example.

A decision has been made in court of law, after hearing the prosecutions, defence, and any mitigation from defence. A caseworker is in no position to revisit the court decision. If a conviction has been regarded as reckless, then they will always regard it as reckless.

No one is saying it will no longer be a recklessness offence this issue is getting the caseworker to use his or her discretion, albeit marginal. Moreover, the applicant pleaded guilty thus there was no trial.

A guilty verdict after an offender pleads guilty, or a guilty verdict after a trial, are both the same. Guilty verdict is a guilty verdict. There is no difference.

But even if someone pleads guilty, they still can present mitigation. Or you can say present excuses to the magistrate/judge about how they ended up committing the offence, in this particular case speeding. A good mitigation will still give the end result of "guilty" verdict but sentence could be lenient.

D4109125 wrote: No one is saying it will no longer be a recklessness offence this issue is getting the caseworker to use his or her discretion, albeit marginal. Moreover, the applicant pleaded guilty thus there was no trial.

Actually caseworker would have exercised discretion in the first place if it was regarded as a minor offence. Now caseworkers don't just toss a coin and decide which speeding offence is minor and which is major. The amount of fine mentioned on counterpart license tells them what they want to know. £180 fine a big fine for speeding, only given for excessively high speed on motorway. Explains why it was not disregarded.

Hi, I know this post is old, but I'm posting on here hoping someone is still keeping in contact. My question/ need for advice pertains to my husband. He got convicted (went to court, paid a 300 pound fine, 6 points on his license was disqualified, but was not banned so he immediately reapplied for his license and was licensed again in a month). His conviction was in May 31 2011 for driving without insurance (IN10). It's his only conviction; he's a soldier in the British army (since June 2009) and wants to apply for British citizenship. What are the chances he will be successful? Am I correct to think that since his conviction was 3 years ago this May then he will be successful, if we were to proceed now with his application? Thanks for the advice.