Page 1 of 2

Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:50 pm
by aussiegoin4it
How many of us have had our ORIGINAL DOCUMENTATION damaged by the Home Office over the years during visa applications?

I had an important original document permanently damaged. And I haven't forgotten about it.

So why not accept the citizenship certificate on stage, then crumple it up immediately in front of everyone! If the Home Office regard original documentation so callously why should we treat British original documentation with any value?

I wonder if the media would be interested in covering this.

Re: Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:58 pm
by CR001
It is often Royal Mail who damages documents.

Please do go ahead and damage your certificate at the ceremony (most people take the ceremony quite seriously as it is very official, so you might look quite the fool if you do this) and then try apply for a passport and let us know how you get on. Replacement naturalisation certificates are not issued for free.

Re: Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:11 pm
by Casa
Crikey aussiegoin4it you're a very angry person. I haven't read one positive comment in your 11 posts! We've had complaints about 'beloved' against Australia, complaints about 'illegal' immigrants and asylum seekers, complaints about other members' BC applications being decided ahead of yours, complaints about British privacy laws being on a par with Russia, complaints about the BC timeline thread straying off subject and now you're preparing to demonstrate your frustration during the citizenship ceremony about documents being damaged. Is there anything at all in this Country (of which you're about to become a citizen) that makes you happy? :roll:

Re: Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:19 pm
by aussiegoin4it
It is often Royal Mail who damages documents.
You can't have been through the visa process yourself and say that with a straight face.

There is a world of difference between something being packaged negligently and damage by Royal Mail.

Re: Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:24 pm
by Siraj ud-Daulah
Casa wrote:Crikey aussiegoin4it you're a very angry person. I haven't read one positive comment in your 11 posts! We've had complaints about 'beloved' against Australia, complaints about 'illegal' immigrants and asylum seekers, complaints about other members' BC applications being decided ahead of yours, complaints about British privacy laws being on a par with Russia, complaints about the BC timeline thread straying off subject and now you're preparing to demonstrate your frustration during the citizenship ceremony about documents being damaged. Is there anything at all in this Country (of which you're about to become a citizen) that makes you happy? :roll:
I came to this country almost 13 years ago and things has changed so much that I don't even recognise this country anymore. Germany taking 500 thousand refugees and we are 20 thousand, in the course of 5 years.

And, yes. Australia is a very dearly beloved county. Just like Hungary. :roll:

Re: Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:26 pm
by aussiegoin4it
Casa wrote:Crikey aussiegoin4it you're a very angry person. I haven't read one positive comment in your 11 posts! We've had complaints about 'beloved' against Australia, complaints about 'illegal' immigrants and asylum seekers, complaints about other members' BC applications being decided ahead of yours, complaints about British privacy laws being on a par with Russia, complaints about the BC timeline thread straying off subject and now you're preparing to demonstrate your frustration during the citizenship ceremony about documents being damaged. Is there anything at all in this Country (of which you're about to become a citizen) that makes you happy? :roll:
But surely you also take issue with:
  • dearly beloved posts attacking a country like Australia
  • illegal immigration
  • unfair processing of applications
  • invasion of basic privacy in the UK
  • people posting non-timeline related posts to timeline threads
  • criminal damage to original documentation by the Home Office
I'm sorry if you want to only read positive things and ignore those things that would make the world a better place if they were addressed.

So let's talk about the positive. I like:
  • when people post timelines to timeline threads (thank you, you make all our lives better by keeping us informed when the Home Office provides no information)
  • stickied threads with important news and information
Now I can not be the only person that has ever posted an unhappy post! In fact if you check the April and May timeline threads right now you'll find an ocean of misery and unhappiness!

Perhaps if the British Home Office treated human beings with more respect there would be more joy not only on these boards but in the country as a whole.

Re: Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:33 pm
by aussiegoin4it
aussiegoin4it wrote:
Casa wrote:Is there anything at all in this Country (of which you're about to become a citizen) that makes you happy? :roll:
I should also point out that after nearly a decade in London I would hardly be qualified to call myself "British" if I espoused any values other than misery and bitterness.

Re: Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:36 pm
by CR001
aussiegoin4it wrote:
It is often Royal Mail who damages documents.
You can't have been through the visa process yourself and say that with a straight face.

There is a world of difference between something being packaged negligently and damage by Royal Mail.
I have indeed been through the whole process of Ancestry visa, spouse visa, ILR and citizenship for myself and my daughter and yes, I have had a few issues but not directly by Home Office, more the courier company or Royal Mail.

Perhaps you have had bad experiences, but good grief, move on!! The level of anger, arrogance and bitterness you appear to show in your posts will likely only hold you back and make you ill. No one is forcing you to stay in the UK and go through the whole process, it is your choice.

Yes the UK has its issues, but it is a damn sight better than where I am from and I am grateful that I had the option of two different visa categories to enable me to leave my home country.

Re: Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:29 pm
by Casa
aussiegoin4it wrote:
Casa wrote:Crikey aussiegoin4it you're a very angry person. I haven't read one positive comment in your 11 posts! We've had complaints about 'beloved' against Australia, complaints about 'illegal' immigrants and asylum seekers, complaints about other members' BC applications being decided ahead of yours, complaints about British privacy laws being on a par with Russia, complaints about the BC timeline thread straying off subject and now you're preparing to demonstrate your frustration during the citizenship ceremony about documents being damaged. Is there anything at all in this Country (of which you're about to become a citizen) that makes you happy? :roll:
But surely you also take issue with:
  • dearly beloved posts attacking a country like Australia
  • illegal immigration
  • unfair processing of applications
  • invasion of basic privacy in the UK
  • people posting non-timeline related posts to timeline threads
  • criminal damage to original documentation by the Home Office
I'm sorry if you want to only read positive things and ignore those things that would make the world a better place if they were addressed.

So let's talk about the positive. I like:
  • when people post timelines to timeline threads (thank you, you make all our lives better by keeping us informed when the Home Office provides no information)
  • stickied threads with important news and information
Now I can not be the only person that has ever posted an unhappy post! In fact if you check the April and May timeline threads right now you'll find an ocean of misery and unhappiness!

Perhaps if the British Home Office treated human beings with more respect there would be more joy not only on these boards but in the country as a whole.
"Our lives are not determined by what happens to us but how we react to what happens, not by what life brings us but the attitude we bring to life."
Wade Boggs


Re: Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:59 pm
by Wanderer
Casa wrote:Crikey aussiegoin4it you're a very angry person. I haven't read one positive comment in your 11 posts! We've had complaints about 'beloved' against Australia, complaints about 'illegal' immigrants and asylum seekers, complaints about other members' BC applications being decided ahead of yours, complaints about British privacy laws being on a par with Russia, complaints about the BC timeline thread straying off subject and now you're preparing to demonstrate your frustration during the citizenship ceremony about documents being damaged. Is there anything at all in this Country (of which you're about to become a citizen) that makes you happy? :roll:
I well remember back in my home town of Bolton, in the 70's, on the 'Halliwell Mile' of about 12 pubs there was a rather incongruous Spanish Taverna by the name of 'Pedro's', run my Spanish Emigre Pedro. Remember no EU freedom of movement back then.

I well remember him regaling stories of his time in Spain dealing with British Tourist complaining about Spanish Food etc, not like his in Blackburn or wherever.

His response to these people?

"Why don't you piss off back to Blackburn then?'

Re: Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:32 am
by carrick
From another Aussie here, we are all NOT like this!! I am currently applying for my BC via UKM and have accepted the fact that it will take 6 months. So with fingers crossed my approval will come to fruition by Feb 2016.

I am so excited to become British and start a new life in the UK when this process is all done and dusted (by the way I am 46 years old!) And I look forward to my Ceremony when I take the oath!

So good luck to all of us who have applied, the HO is doing the best they can and remember they are only documents, they can be replaced. I hope this hasn't turned you off visiting Australia!

Cheers old chap!
Carrick :D

Re: Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:34 pm
by Siraj ud-Daulah
carrick wrote:From another Aussie here, we are all NOT like this!! I am currently applying for my BC via UKM and have accepted the fact that it will take 6 months. So with fingers crossed my approval will come to fruition by Feb 2016.

I am so excited to become British and start a new life in the UK when this process is all done and dusted (by the way I am 46 years old!) And I look forward to my Ceremony when I take the oath!

So good luck to all of us who have applied, the HO is doing the best they can and remember they are only documents, they can be replaced. I hope this hasn't turned you off visiting Australia!

Cheers old chap!
Carrick :D
Very wise indeed. Most Aussies are short tempered and dearly beloved towards refugees but I don't blame them. After all the Brits send all the convicts down there :mrgreen:

Re: Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 3:31 am
by carrick
Siraj ud-Daulah wrote:
carrick wrote:From another Aussie here, we are all NOT like this!! I am currently applying for my BC via UKM and have accepted the fact that it will take 6 months. So with fingers crossed my approval will come to fruition by Feb 2016.

I am so excited to become British and start a new life in the UK when this process is all done and dusted (by the way I am 46 years old!) And I look forward to my Ceremony when I take the oath!

So good luck to all of us who have applied, the HO is doing the best they can and remember they are only documents, they can be replaced. I hope this hasn't turned you off visiting Australia!

Cheers old chap!
Carrick :D
Very wise indeed. Most Aussies are short tempered and dearly beloved towards refugees but I don't blame them. After all the Brits send all the convicts down there :mrgreen:
That's so true!!! And I am a direct descendant from the first fleet convicts!! Perhaps I am a boat person!!

Re: Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:32 am
by Siraj ud-Daulah
carrick wrote:
Siraj ud-Daulah wrote:
carrick wrote:From another Aussie here, we are all NOT like this!! I am currently applying for my BC via UKM and have accepted the fact that it will take 6 months. So with fingers crossed my approval will come to fruition by Feb 2016.

I am so excited to become British and start a new life in the UK when this process is all done and dusted (by the way I am 46 years old!) And I look forward to my Ceremony when I take the oath!

So good luck to all of us who have applied, the HO is doing the best they can and remember they are only documents, they can be replaced. I hope this hasn't turned you off visiting Australia!

Cheers old chap!
Carrick :D
Very wise indeed. Most Aussies are short tempered and dearly beloved towards refugees but I don't blame them. After all the Brits send all the convicts down there :mrgreen:
That's so true!!! And I am a direct descendant from the first fleet convicts!! Perhaps I am a boat person!!
Not a good comeback but a decent effort nonetheless :mrgreen:

I was not being serious by the way, good luck with your application! :)

Re: Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:03 pm
by tripping
Fellow Aussie here too. Aussie, I feel your frustrations, the fault could be either Royal Mail, courier, Home Office for crumpling important documents. Have been miffed when some of my documents were returned slightly worse for wear than before in my past applications, but hey whats more important was that the approval news made it all worth it each time.

Im sure when you enter the chamber on your day of ceremony, you will feel proud to have finally done it, attained the coveted British Citizenship and revel in the fact that you are also a dual citizen of two of the best countries in the world. You will take the oath and accept the citizenship certificate with so much pride you might also shed a tear. Then have some pics taken with a portrait of her Majesty and the Mayor/Councilor, and chow down on the spread after the ceremony.

Good luck to you and all who are applying for their BC :D

Re: Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:13 pm
by ScopeD
Do Aussies swear allegiance to the queen or not? I thought that since they are already subjects of Her Majesty, perhaps they can be exempt from all that hullabaloo which they are already part of. Perhaps this must be queried with Her Majesty's government.

Re: Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:20 pm
by carrick
ScopeD wrote:Do Aussies swear allegiance to the queen or not? I thought that since they are already subjects of Her Majesty, perhaps they can be exempt from all that hullabaloo which they are already part of. Perhaps this must be queried with Her Majesty's government.
i know and we do however, I wish this was the case, it would make things so much easier! I would love it if Commonwealth countries could travel freely between each of them and work unrestricted!

Re: Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:29 pm
by Casa
carrick wrote:
ScopeD wrote:Do Aussies swear allegiance to the queen or not? I thought that since they are already subjects of Her Majesty, perhaps they can be exempt from all that hullabaloo which they are already part of. Perhaps this must be queried with Her Majesty's government.
i know and we do however, I wish this was the case, it would make things so much easier! I would love it if Commonwealth countries could travel freely between each of them and work unrestricted!
I'm guessing that ScopeD is suggesting Aussie citizens could pass on the swearing of allegiance to the Queen during the BC ceremony. Maybe they could also ask to remain seated during the National anthem to avoid even more 'hullabaloo'. :|

Re: Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:53 pm
by noajthan
Let's keep this in perspective...

Nobody is being forced to embrace the flag & swear allegiance to a 'Great She-Elephant from overseas' with a gun at their head.

(That was then this is now).

Re: Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:57 pm
by Casa
noajthan wrote:Let's keep this in perspective...

Nobody is being forced to embrace the flag & swear allegiance to a 'Great She-Elephant from overseas' with a gun at their head.

(That was then this is now).
You'll note my comment was somewhat 'tongue in cheek' noajthan :wink:

Re: Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:09 pm
by noajthan
Casa wrote:
noajthan wrote:Let's keep this in perspective...

Nobody is being forced to embrace the flag & swear allegiance to a 'Great She-Elephant from overseas' with a gun at their head.

(That was then this is now).
You'll note my comment was somewhat 'tongue in cheek' noajthan :wink:
Indeed (I wasn't 'looking at you' Casa) :)

Re: Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:23 pm
by ScopeD
Casa wrote:
carrick wrote:
ScopeD wrote:Do Aussies swear allegiance to the queen or not? I thought that since they are already subjects of Her Majesty, perhaps they can be exempt from all that hullabaloo which they are already part of. Perhaps this must be queried with Her Majesty's government.
i know and we do however, I wish this was the case, it would make things so much easier! I would love it if Commonwealth countries could travel freely between each of them and work unrestricted!
I'm guessing that ScopeD is suggesting Aussie citizens could pass on the swearing of allegiance to the Queen during the BC ceremony. Maybe they could also ask to remain seated during the National anthem to avoid even more 'hullabaloo'. :|
They (Aussies) should be exempt from everything Casa. On the other hand, this brings up a very important question, namely: do they have a UKIP (perhaps it's called AuSIP) or a Scottish National Party (or perhaps Tasmanian National Party)???

Re: Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:46 pm
by Siraj ud-Daulah
ScopeD wrote: They (Aussies) should be exempt from everything Casa. On the other hand, this brings up a very important question, namely: do they have a UKIP (perhaps it's called AuSIP) or a Scottish National Party (or perhaps Tasmanian National Party)???
No, and that is because Australia herself is run by nationalistic political leaders, who profoundly inspire the UKIP leader Mr.Farage (lost in his own constituency btw).

UKIP referendum mentions of point based immigration system and compares it with Australian one. UKIP is also anti-refugee just like the Australian Government. Both Australians and Americans actually uprooted and decimated the native people, enough history for tonight. Good night.

Re: Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:05 pm
by secret.simon
Speaking of history lessons;

The note on the front page of the UK passport still refers to "Her Britannic Majesty's Secretary of State...". The government is of course officially HM Government. And that is why Australia (and other Commonwealth countries) does not send an Embassy to the UK, but a High Commission. Embassies were sent from one monarch to another. The Queen could not send an embassy to herself, so High Commissions are exchanged between the governments of the Commonwealth Realms.
ScopeD wrote:Do Aussies swear allegiance to the queen or not? I thought that since they are already subjects of Her Majesty, perhaps they can be exempt from all that hullabaloo which they are already part of. Perhaps this must be queried with Her Majesty's government.
Till 2004, new citizens who already owed allegiance to the Queen in one of her other Realms (the eight Commonwealth Realms) did not need to swear allegiance again to the Queen as they already owed her allegiance as the citizen of another Commonwealth Realm.

The original Section 42 of the British Nationality Act 1981 stated
(2)So much of subsection (1) as requires the taking of an oath of allegiance shall not apply to a person who—...
(b)is already a British citizen, a British Dependent Territories citizen, a British Overseas citizen, a British subject, or a citizen of any country of which Her Majesty is Queen.
.
That section was completely rewritten by the Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act 2002, which therefore required even citizens of the Queen's "Other Realms and Territories" to take the oath.
carrick wrote:I would love it if Commonwealth countries could travel freely between each of them and work unrestricted!
Of course, originally, pre-1948, all people who owed allegiance to the monarch were British subjects. Then in 1948, Commonwealth countries started creating their own citizenships, but retained the common "British subject" part. Some renamed it to "Commonwealth citizen". New Zealand was the last country to reluctantly abandon the mother country, not only being the last to ratify the Statute of Westminster (granting it legislative independence from Westminster) in 1947, but also the last one to retain "New Zealand citizen and British subject" till the late 1970s. New Zealand, like the UK, is one of only three countries in the world that does not have a written constitution (the other one being Israel).

Crucially, because of their common status as her Majesty's subjects, Commonwealth citizens did have the same kind of freedom of movement that the EU now enjoys till the 1970s. Commonwealth citizens could also register as British citizens, originally within one year of arrival, but fears in the 1960s of floods of immigrants from the "New" (i.e. non-white) Commonwealth led to Enoch Powell's famous "Rivers of Blood" speech and the significant tightening of immigration controls even against Commonwealth citizens and registration then started requiring 5 years of residence. It was still registration rather than naturalisation, as it was felt that Commonwealth citizens already owed allegiance to the Queen as "Head of the Commonwealth".

It was the British Nationality Act 1981 that brought the rules for Commonwealth citizens in line with other non-Commonwealth citizens and acquiring citizenship was only possible through naturalisation.
Casa wrote:they could also ask to remain seated during the National anthem to avoid even more 'hullabaloo'.
During my naturalisation ceremony, an Aussie and I were the only two people in the group to sing the National Anthem unaided by the notes.
ScopeD wrote:do they have a UKIP (perhaps it's called AuSIP) or a Scottish National Party (or perhaps Tasmanian National Party)???
There is a strong Republican movement in Australia. The current Prime Minister, Malcolm Turnbull, strongly favours a Republic, while his immediate predecessor, Tony Abbott, was an ardent supporter of the monarchy. They are both from the same party though :) The Australians did hold a referendum in 1999 on getting rid of the Queen as Head of State. It failed by about 10% (45% yes to 55% No) on a 95% turnout. The last point is, in electoral terms, massively impressive.

PS: God, I am such a history and politics nerd.
PPS: That did make the current LitUK test ridiculously easy for me.

Re: Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:14 pm
by vinny
Thanks for the history lesson.