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illegal arrested (wrong details given ) now ILR, BRP time
Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 11:57 pm
by Kamikhan
Hi guys
I need help !!
I came in UK 1996 never informed home office however in 2011, decided to apply and I was granted ILR,(no biometric taken) I wait till now 2016 to apply for British Citizenship but only realised that laws have been changed a lot in last 5 years that includes good character and BRP !
I have 2 questions if i apply for naturalisation now will I be accepted I know I won't be because I've broken immigration rule by staying illegally so they will ban me till 2021 !! So no need to answer that
fast forward another 4-5 years it's 2021 I'm applying for British citizenship for that I must apply for BRP before apply for my naturalisation so it's now or then regardless of time I have to give my biometric details anyway !
so much actual question is
I was arrested about three times between 2005 to 2008 all on driving offences.
my biometrics were taken by police
( being illegal i naturally give them my wrong details )
I was sent to court and was given 1 year ban and some fine, similar thing happened on the second occasion this time fine/ban and community services, 3rd occasion the judge give me final warning saying you will be sent to prison if you dont stop driving. by then I had about 150 hours of community service Plus 2-3 years ban and what not.
I did my Community Services and probably dint pay back full fine !
now I want to apply for my brp with my actual real details when I'll give my fingerprints what's going to happen ? I have little idea but how do i preplan for worst scenario and what to expect and what to say I would really appreciate if you help/guide me or send link for similar cases.
Reason I'm asking this if HO ban me or put some sort of restriction for couple of years I might as well do it now because I have to wait till 2021 anyway rather than wait till 2021 and then be banned for another 5 10 years. Then I should do it now and get everything cleared by then
Re: illegal arrested (wrong details given ) now ILR, BRP tim
Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 12:09 am
by noajthan
Not looking good...
The decision maker will normally refuse an application where the person has attempted to deceive or otherwise been clearly dishonest in their dealings with another government department.
Re: illegal arrested (wrong details given ) now ILR, BRP tim
Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 2:25 am
by Kamikhan
14 years long stay , i think it's changed to 20 now !!
Re: illegal arrested (wrong details given ) now ILR, BRP tim
Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 2:30 am
by vinny
Thanks. I had deleted my question asking about the basis of your ILR, after counting the number of years.
Re: illegal arrested (wrong details given ) now ILR, BRP tim
Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 9:37 am
by Casa
You should also be aware that when applying for BC, if your ILR is perceived to have been obtained fraudulently (false name/documents etc) then this could be revoked.
Re: illegal arrested (wrong details given ) now ILR, BRP tim
Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 11:16 am
by ohara
How did you get ILR with a different name? Did you use a counterfeit passport?
To be honest it doesn't look good for you with the good character requirement.
- You were here illegally for 15? years
- You were granted ILR based on false information
- You have been arrested and charged with criminal offences three times
- You have practised deception with at least two government departments.
how do i preplan for worst scenario and what to expect
Packing a bag might be a good idea. Any application you make for naturalisation right now is almost guaranteed to fail.
When the Home Office realise you have ILR in another name and discover how you obtained it, there's a strong possibility it will be revoked.
Unfortunately you have dug yourself a fairly deep hole.
Re: illegal arrested (wrong details given ) now ILR, BRP tim
Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 11:35 am
by Casa
ohara wrote:How did you get ILR with a different name? Did you use a counterfeit passport?
To be honest it doesn't look good for you with the good character requirement.
- You were here illegally for 15? years
- You were granted ILR based on false information
- You have been arrested and charged with criminal offences three times
- You have practised deception with at least two government departments.
how do i preplan for worst scenario and what to expect
Packing a bag might be a good idea. Any application you make for naturalisation right now is almost guaranteed to fail.
When the Home Office realise you have ILR in another name and discover how you obtained it, there's a strong possibility it will be revoked.
Unfortunately you have dug yourself a fairly deep hole.
+1 And that's apart from the fact that your outstanding fine from your criminal offence will almost certainly come to light when your fingerprints are taken for biometrics.
Re: illegal arrested (wrong details given ) now ILR, BRP tim
Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 11:52 am
by Kamikhan
I don't know why ur jumping into conclusion that I have given wrong details to home office I gave my actual details to home office I give wrong details to police
home office got my actual details I've got my passport ive got ilr on real name I have all the legal documents on my actual name
home office got my actual name i gave police wrong name because of fear of being deported !! Even tho I wasn't immigration related arrest !
So brp or BC time I will have to give my biometric and they will ask me to explain and i have only one and genuine reason which is i was illegal, so that's why I gave the wrong details.
So please don't give me pack ur bags idea, just tell me how to deal with it if u can if you can't then it's ok !!
Re: illegal arrested (wrong details given ) now ILR, BRP tim
Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 12:05 pm
by tier1o
Kamikhan wrote:
I came in UK 1996 never informed home office however in 2011, decided to apply and I was granted ILR,(no biometric taken)
I believe there is one possibility, since HO doesn't have your biometric data.
Kamikhan wrote:
I was arrested about three times between 2005 to 2008 all on driving offences.
my biometrics were taken by police
( being illegal i naturally give them my wrong details )
You can double check your
biometric data records.
You can request to delete your
crime biometric data collected by the police.
Kamikhan wrote:
now I want to apply for my brp with my actual real details when I'll give my fingerprints what's going to happen ?
If your biometric data is deleted (confirm via above two links) then Do not apply with your actual details but go with what you have previously provided HO (in your ILR).
Theoretically, it looks promising; but I would recommend to consult a competent professional.
All the best.
Re: illegal arrested (wrong details given ) now ILR, BRP tim
Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 12:45 pm
by Kamikhan
It says because the nature of the offence, biometric will be kept, indefinitely
Re: illegal arrested (wrong details given ) now ILR, BRP tim
Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 12:48 pm
by Casa
@tier1o You don't appear to have read through the information on the 'delete biometrics' link, or you've misunderstood the OPs post.
Note: "if you were not convicted of a recordable offence," The OP was convicted of a series of offences and believes there is still an outstanding fine.
Also this forum doesn't support advice on submitting false declarations in any visa or BC application.
@ Kamikhan, when the next biometrics are taken it will flag up a match with your previous false identity. Even if you manage to retain ILR, your BC application will be refused due to deception.
Re: illegal arrested (wrong details given ) now ILR, BRP tim
Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 1:18 pm
by noajthan
noajthan wrote:Not looking good...
The decision maker will normally refuse an application where the person has attempted to deceive or otherwise been clearly dishonest in their dealings with another government department.
Re: illegal arrested (wrong details given ) now ILR, BRP tim
Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 2:43 pm
by kankerot
How were you able to give false details to the Police?
So you have criminal convictions with your biometric data on the Police db.
You have your real details with your name but no biometrics data with the HO.
How were you granted ILR?
It all depends on how they check the data. If the HO simply records your biometrics and checks it against their records to see if you have ever applied before under a different name then you will be in the clear.
If they also check the criminal records data using your biometrics data then you would be in trouble. However if they simply do a search on your name and dob then you might be ok.
Re: illegal arrested (wrong details given ) now ILR, BRP tim
Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 3:22 pm
by Casa
kankerot wrote:How were you able to give false details to the Police?
So you have criminal convictions with your biometric data on the Police db.
You have your real details with your name but no biometrics data with the HO.
How were you granted ILR?
It all depends on how they check the data. If the HO simply records your biometrics and checks it against their records to see if you have ever applied before under a different name then you will be in the clear.
If they also check the criminal records data using your biometrics data then you would be in trouble. However if they simply do a search on your name and dob then you might be ok.
Checking criminal records data for BC applications is now HO standard practice, following the substantially tighter Rules on 'good character'.
Re: illegal arrested (wrong details given ) now ILR, BRP tim
Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 3:24 pm
by CR001
kankerot wrote:How were you granted ILR?
14 years residence as an illegal migrant. This route has now been closed. Biometrics likely not required at the time the poster applied for ILR.
Re: illegal arrested (wrong details given ) now ILR, BRP tim
Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 3:31 pm
by secret.simon
Kamikhan wrote:fast forward another 4-5 years it's 2021 I'm applying for British citizenship for that I must apply for BRP before apply for my naturalisation so it's now or then regardless of time I have to give my biometric details anyway !
Just to clarify, there is no need to have a BRP to apply for naturalisation, at least at the moment. You need to have ILR, which you say you have. I presume that is evidenced by a vignette in your passport/travel document. If so, that should be sufficient to show that you have ILR.
I can not predict what the rules in 2021 will be.
CR001 wrote:kankerot wrote:How were you granted ILR?
14 years residence as an illegal migrant. This route has now been closed.
Biometrics likely not required at the time the poster applied for ILR.
The OP has probably got his ILR on a vignette in his passport and not on a BRP.
On a slightly different point, deception is the only ground that I know of that citizenship can be revoked for, even after grant. So if this issue is revisited any time in the future, your British citizenship, even if granted, can be revoked. You will be living under this sword of Damocles for the rest of your life.
Re: illegal arrested (wrong details given ) now ILR, BRP tim
Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 3:45 pm
by kankerot
Casa wrote:
Checking criminal records data for BC applications is now HO standard practice, following the substantially tighter Rules on 'good character'.
It all depends how they check. If they check using biometric data then he will be caught. If they check using name address dob then he would be ok.
So they take your biometrics data and create a unique key based on this data, if thats the key they use to check your criminal records then that will show that unique bio key being linked to another persons details.
If he has ILR then he should just accept that maybe the best he can hope for.
Re: illegal arrested (wrong details given ) now ILR, BRP tim
Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 3:58 pm
by secret.simon
kankerot wrote:If he has ILR then he should just accept that maybe the best he can hope for.
Till they do force all ILR holders to move onto BRPs. There have been a few posts lately in the General Immigration forum about people entering on ILR vignettes being told that they must upgrade to BRPs.
That is not the law currently, but it is not improbable that the IOs have been briefed about a potential change in the law, likely to come in after the results of the EU referendum (this is mere conjecture based on posts made in these forums and not to be taken as fact).
Were such a change to be implemented, it is not improbable that the OP's biometrics get flagged up at the time of submission. And if citizenship can be revoked (a very rare event) for deception, ILR definitely can be.
Re: illegal arrested (wrong details given ) now ILR, BRP tim
Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 5:12 pm
by kankerot
Reading again what you wrote. You said you were arrested about 3 times - so it could have been more times?
So you went to court using false details. Now if this could lead to the wrong person being convicted (ie whoever details you used then it can be seen as perverting the course of justice.
So in the period you had your driving offences you were an illegal immigrant and the HO did not know about you so then how did you get DL or Insurance? Unless you were purporting to be someone else?
Probably didnt pay the fine - reads like you have not paid the fine on purpose.
Re: illegal arrested (wrong details given ) now ILR, BRP tim
Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 8:52 pm
by Kamikhan
No i used my name but slightly different, I had no licence so obviously no insurance. That's why I was taken to court ! I got charged for 2 offences first driving without valid licence and 2nd driving without valid insurance however the judge drop one charge of drive without insurance because I cannot have insurance if I don't have a licence ! I did my unpaid Community service and I intend to pay the fine but I must've moved or something however I did make first 3-4 payments of £20 each please stop going on like no one has never ever giving false details to authorities, it will be impossible for me to believe that out of millions of people who live in this country or have lived in this country illegally and are now legal but were illegal at some stage haven't done anything wrong, or were got arrested like this or they weren't in similar situation. let's say 1 million people migrated in UK since 1996 and let's asumme 99.99 percent people have done absolutely no wrong (which is impossible) there'll still be 100 people like me or in similar situation that 0.01% , and I'm pretty sure HO would have received many cases along that line,
All I'm asking, if anyone is aware of something similar then please share,
Re: illegal arrested (wrong details given ) now ILR, BRP tim
Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 10:08 pm
by ohara
now I want to apply for my brp with my actual real details
The way you worded this suggested that you had ILR in a different name so I apologise if I got that wrong.
Re: illegal arrested (wrong details given ) now ILR, BRP tim
Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 10:10 pm
by Casa
ohara wrote:now I want to apply for my brp with my actual real details
The way you worded this suggested that you had ILR in a different name so I apologise if I got that wrong.
@ohara that was also my understanding.
Re: illegal arrested (wrong details given ) now ILR, BRP tim
Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 10:11 pm
by CR001
Casa wrote:ohara wrote:now I want to apply for my brp with my actual real details
The way you worded this suggested that you had ILR in a different name so I apologise if I got that wrong.
@ohara that was also my understanding.
+1 to both of you, I read it and understood it to mean the same
Re: illegal arrested (wrong details given ) now ILR, BRP tim
Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 10:58 pm
by noajthan
CR001 wrote:+1 to both of you, I read it and understood it to mean the same
Yep, it read that way to me too.
Grammar and semantics are great aren't they.
But even a real BRP with real details and genuine, matching iris/fingerprint scans embedded in it won't overturn the deceptions perpetrated in earlier dealings with various organs of the state; eg the police.
That will have consequences.