Are LTD directors self-employed

[yavooz]

Hi,

I already made my application 2 months ago so this one is not for me, but it might help others.

I applied as a director of my ltd company, and the staff at NCS Newham told me I don't need to submit my tax documents (which I took with me to NCS), and they submitted my application without the tax related documents.

I've seen on another thread here that there is a confusion on this subject. Should ltd directors treat themselves as self-employed during the application or not?

i'll also let you know if my application gets approved/rejected.

[Wanderer]

Hi,

I already made my application 2 months ago so this one is not for me, but it might help others.

I applied as a director of my ltd company, and the staff at NCS Newham told me I don't need to submit my tax documents (which I took with me to NCS), and they submitted my application without the tax related documents.

I've seen on another thread here that there is a confusion on this subject. Should ltd directors treat themselves as self-employed during the application or not?

i'll also let you know if my application gets approved/rejected.

They are not self employed but the UKVI have strange views on this not consistent with the law. I feel they sometimes take the view that a PSC or one-man-limited (ie the norm for IT Contracting) is tantamount to self-employment and whilst you could argue that's largely true in essence, self emplyment in structured legally separate enviroment, in law they are quite distinct, Ltd is one legal body, director/employee another.

Of course it is possible to 'lift the veil' of incorporation and go for the directors invidually in the case of deleiction of directors duties, ie fraud, tax evasion etc.

So it's black in white in law, murky grey in the real world.

[crimson76]

Hi,

I already made my application 2 months ago so this one is not for me, but it might help others.

I applied as a director of my ltd company, and the staff at NCS Newham told me I don't need to submit my tax documents (which I took with me to NCS), and they submitted my application without the tax related documents.

I've seen on another thread here that there is a confusion on this subject. Should ltd directors treat themselves as self-employed during the application or not?

i'll also let you know if my application gets approved/rejected.

They are not self employed but the UKVI have strange views on this not consistent with the law. I feel they sometimes take the view that a PSC or one-man-limited (ie the norm for IT Contracting) is tantamount to self-employment and whilst you could argue that's largely true in essence, self emplyment in structured legally separate enviroment, in law they are quite distinct, Ltd is one legal body, director/employee another.

Of course it is possible to 'lift the veil' of incorporation and go for the directors invidually in the case of deleiction of directors duties, ie fraud, tax evasion etc.

So it's black in white in law, murky grey in the real world.

Do company directors need to submit any tax documents with their application? As per home office guidance, self employed applicants should provide ''Statement of Account'' from HMRC. However, HMRC does not send Statement of account automatically any more. Will it be OK to use SA302'S for last five years?

[noajthan]

Do company directors need to submit any tax documents with their application? As per home office guidance, self employed applicants should provide ''Statement of Account'' from HMRC. However, HMRC does not send Statement of account automatically any more. Will it be OK to use SA302'S for last five years?

This is not a visa application and employment (in any shape or form) is not mandatory for the privilege of citizenship.
The AN guidance simply asks for current tax document (not historical).

[yavooz]

yes but it's asking for the current tax document only if you are self-employed.

and given that the section where you chose your employment type, self-employed and director are two different options, I assumed they are two different things. so, directors aren't self-employed hence no need for latest tax documents.

[noajthan]

yes but it's asking for the current tax document only if you are self-employed.

and given that the section where you chose your employment type, self-employed and director are two different options, I assumed they are two different things. so, directors aren't self-employed hence no need for latest tax documents.

If such a director is paying tax by PAYE then all good.

The point seems to be that HO wants to see some current link to HMRC either via self-assessment or by PAYE.

[yavooz]

update for everyone

I applied as a LTD company director and didn't provide any tax related documents.
Got my approval last weekend.

[rotor]

update for everyone

I applied as a LTD company director and didn't provide any tax related documents.
Got my approval last weekend.

You got your citizenship in 3 months? That's pretty good!

[siavashes]

update for everyone

I applied as a LTD company director and didn't provide any tax related documents.
Got my approval last weekend.

have you submitted your SA(self assessment ) forms to HMRC ?

[yavooz]

i dont really know what I submitted to HMRC. my accountant looks after that. But I know I'm up to date with HMRC so nothing dodgy

[searcher74]

Directors don't need to do Self Assessment solely by dint of their role as Directors.

Directors will either receive a salary, in which case they will be paying tax via PAYE

or

They will pay themselves dividends as Shareholders (in the case of Director/Owner Ltd co's) in which case, yes, they need to do Self-Assessment, but only in view of their having received dividends as shareholders.

Cheers.

[Wanderer]

Directors don't need to do Self Assessment solely by dint of their role as Directors.

Directors will either receive a salary, in which case they will be paying tax via PAYE

or

They will pay themselves dividends as Shareholders (in the case of Director/Owner Ltd co's) in which case, yes, they need to do Self-Assessment, but only in view of their having received dividends as shareholders.

Cheers.

Who has to complete Self Assessment...

You’ll need to send a tax return if, in the last tax year:

you were self-employed - you can deduct allowable expenses
you got £2,500 or more in untaxed income, eg from renting out a property or savings and investments - contact the helpline if it was less than £2,500
your savings or investment income was £10,000 or more before tax
you made profits from selling things like shares, a second home or other chargeable assets and need to pay Capital Gains Tax
you were a company director - unless it was for a non-profit organisation (eg a charity) and you didn’t get any pay or benefits, like a company car
your income (or your partner’s) was over £50,000 and one of you claimed Child Benefit
you had income from abroad that you needed to pay tax on
you lived abroad and had a UK income
you got dividends from shares and you’re a higher or additional rate taxpayer - but if you don’t need to send a return for any other reason, contact the helpline instead
your income was over £100,000
you were a trustee of a trust or registered pension scheme
you had a P800 from HMRC saying you didn’t pay enough tax last year - and you didn’t pay what you owe through your tax code or with a voluntary payment

All directors are required to fill in SA, except for non-profit orgs. and recieved no pay or BIKs.

[searcher74]

The joys of too much information...

HMRC website is wrong, as it often is. It's not the law.

Consider the following simple yet common scenario:

Ltd Co Director pays himself a salary via PAYE.
He pays himself no Dividends as Owner.

What additional income / tax liability has been missed in this scenario by not doing SA.

[Wanderer]

The joys of too much information...

HMRC website is wrong, as it often is. It's not the law.

Consider the following simple yet common scenario:

Ltd Co Director pays himself a salary via PAYE.
He pays himself no Dividends as Owner.

What additional income / tax liability has been missed in this scenario by not doing SA.

It's not about liabilities - one can enter zero in many of the boxes if applicable, it's merely about the requirement to fill in SA and capturing those with non-standard tax affairs. When I do mine most entries are zero.

In any case I'd advise anyone to toe the HMRC line otherwise you may well end up in a situation, well, like nearly everyone on this sub-forum really, ie up shit creek with Apple Maps.....

[UKBALoveStory]

Ltd Co Director pays himself a salary via PAYE.
He pays himself no Dividends as Owner.

What additional income / tax liability has been missed in this scenario by not doing SA.

None, thats why you tell HMRC by filling SA

[searcher74]

Or you could just look at what the law actually says, right here:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/197 ... /7/enacted

HMRC, as much as they would like to be, are not (thankfully) the law.

[Wanderer]

Or you could just look at what the law actually says, right here:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/197 ... /7/enacted

HMRC, as much as they would like to be, are not (thankfully) the law.

I did some digging too and I concur, I was wrong!

Sack cloth and ashes for me lol!