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British Citizenship Query
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:39 am
by Hammer2001
I am British by birth.
My wife and step-daughter arrived in the UK to live permanently with me in Nov 2014.
My wife on a 33 month initial Leave to Enter spouse visa and my daughter was granted Indefinite Leave to Enter. She was 12 at that time.
As I understand it my wife will apply for Leave to Remain next year and then Indefinite Leave to remain in Jan 2020. And after that she would be entitled to apply for citizenship after one more year, so after Jan 2021. Is that correct?
If so, does my step-daughter have to wait until the same time, or because she already has ILE, would she be able to apply for citizenship five years after arriving in the UK.ie Nov 2019?
Re: British Citizenship Query
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:46 am
by CR001
As I understand it my wife will apply for Leave to Remain next year and then Indefinite Leave to remain in Jan 2020. And after that she would be entitled to apply for citizenship after one more year, so after Jan 2021. Is that correct?
As soon as your wife gets ILR she can then apply for citizenship as the spouse of a British citizen. She does not have to wait a further 12 months.
If so, does my step-daughter have to wait until the same time, or because she already has ILE, would she be able to apply for citizenship five years after arriving in the UK.ie Nov 2019?
Are you sure she has ILE? Have you adopted her? As she is not your child, she should have leave to remain in line with her mother and follow the same process as her mother?
Re: British Citizenship Query
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:58 am
by Hammer2001
Thanks CR001.
Are you sure she has ILE? Have you adopted her? As she is not your child, she should have leave to remain in line with her mother and follow the same process as her mother?
Well her visa clearly states Indefinite Leave To Enter.
We were not expecting this.
I have not adopted her officially. But her real father has never been involved in her life and has never even met her. His whereabouts are unknown. My wife also has sole parental responsibility for her. So maybe this had a bearing on the decision?
Re: British Citizenship Query
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:03 am
by CR001
No, your wife's sole responsibility would not have any bearing on ILE being granted. I think she may have been issued ILE in error, but suggest wait for vinny or noajthan to respond as they might know a bit more.
For example, when I did my spouse visa, my daughter got a visa in line with mine and had to do ILR etc with me as she was my husbands step daughter.
ILE is usually granted to children of British citizens or ILR holders and not granted to step children of BC's.
Re: British Citizenship Query
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:07 am
by noajthan
CR001 wrote:No, your wife's sole responsibility would not have any bearing on ILE being granted. I think she may have been issued ILE in error, but suggest wait for vinny or noajthan to respond as they might know a bit more.
For example, when I did my spouse visa, my daughter got a visa in line with mine and had to do ILR etc with me as she was my husbands step daughter
My case was similar, step-daughter's visa in line with mother's (FLR) and then followed mother through the system to eventually get ILR.
Daughter entered UK later than mother (due to an initial refusal) but was then sync-ed up by her eventual entry.
Don't know much about ILE but sense that mother and daughter may have first entered UK at different times so daughter was given ILE (but then again OP mentions Nov 2014) (?)
Re: British Citizenship Query
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:12 am
by CR001
noajthan wrote:Don't know much about ILE but sense that mother and daughter may have first entered UK at different times (but then again OP mentions Nov 2014) (?)
Regardless of whether they entered the UK separately, unless the mother held ILR at the time the daughter applied for her visa, ILE should not have been issued as far as I am aware.
Perhaps when vinny is online he can provide info or a link.
Re: British Citizenship Query
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:17 am
by Hammer2001
Don't know much about ILE but sense that mother and daughter may have first entered UK at different times so daughter was given ILE (but then again OP mentions Nov 2014) (?)
No, they both applied for the visa at the same time. The applications were submitted together.
And they both entered the UK together.
Would the fact that her real father was never married to her mother and abandoned them during the pregnancy, so has never had any involvement in her life. His whereabouts are unknown, and as there has been no contact in the whole 12 years of her life, he is effectively presumed dead!
And her mother now marrying me and intending to live permanently in the UK not have a bearing?
The visa states in the notes :
"Indefinite Leave to Enter to join father (my name)"
It was very clear from all the supporting documentation that I am not her real father, so it could not have been a mistake.
There would be no one else for her to live with in her home country, so maybe it was a discretionary decision?
Re: British Citizenship Query
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:24 am
by CR001
Would the fact that her real father was never married to her mother and abandoned them during the pregnancy, so has never had any involvement in her life. His whereabouts are unknown, and as there has been no contact in the whole 12 years of her life, he is effectively presumed dead!
And her mother now marrying me and intending to live permanently in the UK not have a bearing?
No, it would not have any bearing. My daughter's real father was not even mentioned on her birth cert and never even saw her.
The visa states in the notes :
"Indefinite Leave to Enter to join father (my name)"
Should have said 'xxx visa to accompany parent 'wife's name'' or similar.
It was very clear from all the supporting documentation that I am not her real father, so it could not have been a mistake.
Errors do happen even when something is obvious.
There would be no one else for her to live with in her home country, so maybe it was a discretionary decision?
No, there is no such 'discretionary decision'.
What does your wife's visa say?
Re: British Citizenship Query
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:10 am
by Hammer2001
Just checked the exact wording on the visas:
My wife's states visa type "Spouse/CP - Spouse/CP of (my name)
My step-daughter's states visa type "Visa Settlement acc mother to join father (my name).
If it was a mistake, where do we stand, can the visa be revoked?
Is there an email address I could contact to get clarification?
I find the UKVI helpline not so good for more complex enquires.
Re: British Citizenship Query
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:18 am
by CR001
Yes, settlement visa is correct. Where on the visa does it say 'ILE'? Is there an expiry date on the visa?
Re: British Citizenship Query
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:38 am
by Hammer2001
In the observations it states:
"Indefinite Leave to enter the UK"
The valid until date is 1/08/2017
But from what I read in the guidance notes this date is not an expiry date on an ILE, but a date by which the person must enter the country.
Re: British Citizenship Query
Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:02 am
by Hammer2001
So assuming the ILE is correct. What is the earliest date my step daughter could apply for citizenship?
Re: British Citizenship Query
Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:06 am
by noajthan
Hammer2001 wrote:So assuming the ILE is correct. What is the earliest date my step daughter could apply for citizenship?
When wife has ILR and is naturalising.
Re: British Citizenship Query
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:42 pm
by Hammer2001
Just following up this post on the validity of ILE.
From this website
weblink removed it states:
Children who have a parent or parents who are settled in the UK can join them here and be granted indefinite leave to enter/remain directly. There are however several conditions that need to be satisfied before the children can qualify. These are as follows:-
(i) The sponsoring parent/relative must be present and settled in the UK; or
both parents should be applying to be admitted on the same occasion for settlement; or
One parent must be present and settled in the UK and the other should be applying to be admitted on the same occasion for settlement; or
One parent must be present and settled in the UK or should be applying to be admitted on the same occasion for settlement and the other parent is deceased; or
One parent must be present and settled in the UK or applying to be admitted on the same occasion for settlement and has had sole responsibility for the child`s upbringing; or
One parent or the relevant relative must be present and settled in the UK or applying to be admitted on the same occasion for settlement and there are serious and compelling family or other considerations which make exclusion of the child undesirable and suitable arrangements have been made for the child's care.
(ii) The child should be under 18 years of age and not leading an independent life, nor be married and have formed an independent family unit.
(iii) There must be sufficient funds for adequately maintaining and accommodating the child without recourse to UK public funds
The question of sole responsibility was quite clear in my wife's case and the ILE was granted on this basis.
My step-daughter was also born before December 2003 when the parental responsibility rules changed.
Re: British Citizenship Query
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:22 pm
by CR001
As the child is your step child, she should have been granted a visa in line with her mothers. That is the point I have been making. If the child was your biological child, then yes ILE would have been appropriate.
Re: British Citizenship Query
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 7:53 pm
by Hammer2001
Hi CR001,
I do understand the point you are making, in fact that was the decision we were expecting.
So getting ILE for her was a welcome bonus.
But looking at the criteria as written above, I can see in my step-daughter's particular circumstances she fits the criteria for direct ILE to be granted and obviously the ECO judging it felt the same.
Re: British Citizenship Query
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:18 pm
by CR001
My opinion is that it is an error. I myself (my daughter) have been victims of ECO errors with incorrect visas issued (even with ALL the correct paperwork) and a second time here in the UK with incorrect visa and BRP card issued to my daughter.
Maybe your step daughter was lucky.
Re: British Citizenship Query
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:36 pm
by Hammer2001
Maybe , maybe not!
But looking at the criteria I'd deem the decision to be correct.
Looking through your posts I think your daughter's circumstances appear to be very different.