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Hi All,

The rule says that you need 1 year of PR in order to get Naturalisation (via for AN). My PR is dated September 2016. Shall I wait 1 year to just submit AN, or can I send it already and it will then get processed? I figure 6 months will pass by the time my application will get processed, so why not queue up already.

Thoughts?

ponch10 wrote:Hi All,

The rule says that you need 1 year of PR in order to get Naturalisation (via for AN). My PR is dated September 2016. Shall I wait 1 year to just submit AN, or can I send it already and it will then get processed? I figure 6 months will pass by the time my application will get processed, so why not queue up already.

Thoughts?

Or perhaps more exactly: how do I find out when I became permanent resident, according to HO?

Do not send naturalisation application until you can actually apply - there is no queuing or holding system and HO will reject. Using NCS is recommended as they are able to double-check your documents. As for the actual date PR was achieved you can apply for a SAR.

ponch10 wrote:Hi All,

The rule says that you need 1 year of PR in order to get Naturalisation (via for AN). My PR is dated September 2016. Shall I wait 1 year to just submit AN, or can I send it already and it will then get processed? I figure 6 months will pass by the time my application will get processed, so why not queue up already.

Thoughts?

Date of PR card is nothing to do with it.
Its one year from when you acquired the status (not the card).
- assuming not married to a British spouse.

UKVI told me that the PR status is acquired on the issue date shown on the card...

ponch10 wrote:UKVI told me that the PR status is acquired on the issue date shown on the card...

They are wrong. Advice given on the UKVI 'help line' is frequently flawed, even on the most simple of immigration matters.

Call them 10 times and you're likely to be given 10 different answers.

ponch10 wrote:UKVI told me that the PR status is acquired on the issue date shown on the card...

They are absolutely and fundamentally wrong.

The card simply confirms status it does not grant or confer any status by itself.

PR status is acquired by exercisng treaty rights for 5 years as qualified person. Do that and you have PR - all the card does is confirm it.
You can have PR status even without such a card.

ponch10 wrote:UKVI told me that the PR status is acquired on the issue date shown on the card...

They are wrong.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... e#p1411008

I was told by UKBA that as an EEA citizen who lived in the UK for over 10 years can apply for naturalisation only if 12 months passed since issue date on my PRDC (??). I have applied and received Document Certifying Permanent Residency in 2013 and came to the UK in 2005 so physically in 2010 I acquired permanent status anyway...it's all confusing and agree with 10 calls and 10 different opinions.....

Serpiko37 wrote:I was told by UKBA that as an EEA citizen who lived in the UK for over 10 years can apply for naturalisation only if 12 months passed since issue date on my PRDC (??). I have applied and received Document Certifying Permanent Residency in 2013 and came to the UK in 2005 so physically in 2010 I acquired permanent status anyway...it's all confusing and agree with 10 calls and 10 different opinions.....

UKBA hasn't existed since 2013 and whoever told you that is flat out wrong anyway.

I've lived in the UK since 1991, had PR since 2012, got DCPR in 2016 and applied for naturalisation ONE MONTH later and it was approved. The date of issue is 100% irrelevant.

Really confusing as I know many people who think that they need to wait 12 months. I know Ukrainian guy whom got his PR card on September 2016 (lived here since 2006) and was told that he can apply only if 12 months pass that is for him September 2017...really confusing. He got his PR through appointment (apparently).

Takeaway:
Forget the helpline and random guys in the pub.

Stick with the collective hive mind of the forum.

From GOV:

had permanent residence status for the last 12 months if you’re a citizen of an EEA country - you need to provide a permanent residence document

12 months since when? Receiving it...or 12 month since you actually acquired you status and document is just to prove it.

Serpiko37 wrote:From GOV:

had permanent residence status for the last 12 months if you’re a citizen of an EEA country - you need to provide a permanent residence document

12 months since when? Receiving it...or 12 month since you actually acquired you status and document is just to prove it.

This one - 12 month since you actually acquired you status and document is just to prove it.

Thank you Casa. Guys here seem to have much more clue than helpline...thanks again

noajthan wrote:

ponch10 wrote:UKVI told me that the PR status is acquired on the issue date shown on the card...

They are absolutely and fundamentally wrong.

The card simply confirms status it does not grant or confer any status by itself.

PR status is acquired by exercisng treaty rights for 5 years as qualified person. Do that and you have PR - all the card does is confirm it.
You can have PR status even without such a card.

OK I called again and I have been told that if in my PR application I supplied information for 5 years (not 6), then I have to wait one more year before applying.
Looking on the web my understanding is that this is an European law matter, and UK PR card should not really come into play. Hence, as long as I exercised free movement rights, by working, for 10 years, I am ok.

The question is: would be ok to provide HMRC a 10 years employment history with the form AN, even though my PR card was issued on the basis of the past 5 years only? Has anyone done that?

Casa wrote:

Serpiko37 wrote:From GOV:

had permanent residence status for the last 12 months if you’re a citizen of an EEA country - you need to provide a permanent residence document

12 months since when? Receiving it...or 12 month since you actually acquired you status and document is just to prove it.

This one - 12 month since you actually acquired you status and document is just to prove it.

according to booklet AN, page 10:

"If you are a national of a country which is a member state of the EEA or Switzerland, or the
family member of such a person, you will automatically have permanent residence status
after exercising EEA free movement rights in the UK for any continuous period of 5 years
ending on or after 30 April 2006. You should apply for a permanent residence card to prove
that you hold that status before applying for citizenship."

"Automatically" have PR status after 5 years of exercising rights. That means that the PR card has nothing to do with it.

ponch10 wrote:

noajthan wrote:

ponch10 wrote:UKVI told me that the PR status is acquired on the issue date shown on the card...

They are absolutely and fundamentally wrong.

The card simply confirms status it does not grant or confer any status by itself.

PR status is acquired by exercisng treaty rights for 5 years as qualified person. Do that and you have PR - all the card does is confirm it.
You can have PR status even without such a card.

OK I called again and I have been told that if in my PR application I supplied information for 5 years (not 6), then I have to wait one more year before applying.
Looking on the web my understanding is that this is an European law matter, and UK PR card should not really come into play. Hence, as long as I exercised free movement rights, by working, for 10 years, I am ok.

The question is: would be ok to provide HMRC a 10 years employment history with the form AN, even though my PR card was issued on the basis of the past 5 years only? Has anyone done that?

You are confusing yourself and not helping yourself by using the helpline.
If you acquired PR status some time ago (over a year ago) then you have served your 12 months free of immigration time restrictions;
this is necessary for a section 6(1) BNA application to naturalise as a citizen.

Be aware: The legislative framework for naturalisation (BNA) is completely independent of anything else.
The (up to) 10 years employment history question is more about the naturalisation-related good character requirement; it is nothing to do with PR.

You don't need 6 years of treaty rights nor 10 years (!).
You need settled status.
Then follow and fulfill the other naturalisation requirement - all as per AN guide and AN booklet on Gov UK website.

ponch10 wrote:

Casa wrote:

Serpiko37 wrote:From GOV:

had permanent residence status for the last 12 months if you’re a citizen of an EEA country - you need to provide a permanent residence document

12 months since when? Receiving it...or 12 month since you actually acquired you status and document is just to prove it.

This one - 12 month since you actually acquired you status and document is just to prove it.

according to booklet AN, page 10:

...

"Automatically" have PR status after 5 years of exercising rights. That means that the PR card has nothing to do with it.

Yes, you have almost got it. You can have PR status without a DCPR (card).

However, the UK, for reasons best known to itself, has chosen to make an optional and purely confirmatory EU document (DCPR) mandatory for EEA citizens who wish to naturalise.

Thank you noajthan.
We do agree on the fact that I do have PR status for long enough. How do I prove that to HO? Or else, how do they know? Or yet, what can I supply to make my application refusal proof?
Remember that in my PR card application I only supplied the requested 5 years, nothing longer.

ponch10 wrote:Thank you noajthan.
We do agree on the fact that I do have PR status for long enough. How do I prove that to HO? Or else, how do they know? Or yet, what can I supply to make my application refusal proof?
Remember that in my PR card application I only supplied the requested 5 years, nothing longer.

Depends what evidence you submitted and for what period.
Did you notice there is no 'what is your qualifying period'-type question.
- there are a bunch of 'tell me all your timeline'-type questions.
From that the caseworker can determine if someone acquired PR.

If you acquired PR in, say, 2010 or 2013 but (for some reason) only supplied the last 5 years evidence (say 2011-2016) then HO are likely to have you down as PR since 2016.

As UK are (mis-)using EU DCPR and PRC cards for its own domestic purposes, the card design is unaware and does not support this kind of use.
The card does not show the date PR was acquired. Only the date of issue.

HO records the date it believes you acquired PR in your file in CID (HO databank).
NCS can check this if/when you apply to naturalise via NCS.
Or you can request a SAR from UKVI which may show this.

noajthan wrote:

ponch10 wrote:Thank you noajthan.
We do agree on the fact that I do have PR status for long enough. How do I prove that to HO? Or else, how do they know? Or yet, what can I supply to make my application refusal proof?
Remember that in my PR card application I only supplied the requested 5 years, nothing longer.

Depends what evidence you submitted and for what period.

If you acquired PR in say 2006 or 2013 but only supplied last 5 years evidence then HO are likely to have you down as PR since 2016.

As UK are (mis)using EU DCPR and PRC cards for its own domestic purposes, the card design is unaware and does not support this usage.
The card does not show the date PR was acquired. Only the date of issue.

HO records the date it believes you acquired PR in your file in CID (HO databank).
NCS can check this if/when you apply to naturalise via NCS.
Or you can request a SAR from UKVI which may show this.

I arrived in the uk in 2006. Being employed full time, effectively I acquired PR status in 2011 (5 years of work in the UK). I applied for PR card in May 2016 supplying info (bills, payslips and so on) back to March 2011 (past 5 years) and I received a PR card in September 2016. So at this point, HO knows that I have been in the UK for 10 years, but only has info for the past 5.

I submitted a SAR, and pretty quickly I have been replied that PR status date is the date shown on the PR card! I expect NCS to get the same response.

Thoughts?

noajthan wrote:

ponch10 wrote:Thank you noajthan.
We do agree on the fact that I do have PR status for long enough. How do I prove that to HO? Or else, how do they know? Or yet, what can I supply to make my application refusal proof?
Remember that in my PR card application I only supplied the requested 5 years, nothing longer.

Depends what evidence you submitted and for what period.

If you acquired PR in say 2006 or 2013 but only supplied last 5 years evidence then HO are likely to have you down as PR since 2016.

As UK are (mis)using EU DCPR and PRC cards for its own domestic purposes, the card design is unaware and does not support this usage.
The card does not show the date PR was acquired. Only the date of issue.

HO records the date it believes you acquired PR in your file in CID (HO databank).
NCS can check this if/when you apply to naturalise via NCS.
Or you can request a SAR from UKVI which may show this.

I arrived in the uk in 2006. Being employed full time, effectively I acquired PR status in 2011 (5 years of work in the UK). I applied for PR card in May 2016 supplying info (bills, payslips and so on) back to March 2011 (past 5 years) and I received a PR card in September 2016. So at this point, HO knows that I have been in the UK for 10 years, but only has info for the past 5.

I submitted a SAR, and pretty quickly I have been replied that PR status date is the date shown on the PR card! I expect NCS to get the same response.

Thoughts?

However the Booklet AN, page 10, says:

But remember that, unless you are married to or the civil partner of a British citizen, you
should normally have held permanent resident status for 12 months before applying for
naturalisation. This means that you may need to wait until you have been in the United
Kingdom for 6 years before you can apply. When you apply for a permanent residence
document the evidence that you supply for your EEA(PR) application must be for a 5 year
period that ended at least a year before you want to apply for citizenship.

They seem to state it pretty clear that you had to supply 6 years of history with EEA(PR) if you want to apply with AN immediately. This is sufficient grounds for a refusal, unless the application is strong enough on itself?

ponch10 wrote:However the Booklet AN, page 10, says:

But remember that, unless you are married to or the civil partner of a British citizen, you
should normally have held permanent resident status for 12 months before applying for
naturalisation. This means that you may need to wait until you have been in the United
Kingdom for 6 years before you can apply. When you apply for a permanent residence
document the evidence that you supply for your EEA(PR) application must be for a 5 year
period that ended at least a year before you want to apply for citizenship.

They seem to state it pretty clear that you had to supply 6 years of history with EEA(PR) if you want to apply with AN immediately. This is sufficient grounds for a refusal, unless the application is strong enough on itself?

Applying for DCPR is nothing to do with naturalising.
The two sets of requirements are not merged into the PR application.

It simply means you cannot naturalise 'now' unless you acquired PR (over) a year ago (unless married to British spouse).
It is a kind of restatement of section 6(1) of BNA requirements in an EU context.

So to apply to naturalise 'now' your UK immigration journey needs to have started at least 6 years ago.
And you say yours started in 2005.

Someone who came to UK in 2011 and acquires PR only now would have to wait a year before naturalising (if no BC spouse).
That is not the case for you (assuming you submitted evidence from, say, 2005+)