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Hi,
I'm completely lost at the moment as to what to do. Any help would be much appreciated.

Me and my wife have recently obtained British citizenship (1 month ago) and I've also received my first British passport. I've submitted my BRP within 5 days of obtaining British citizenship as was required.

Our daughter was born 5 months ago when both of us held Indefinite Leave to Remain. I've applied for my baby daughter's first British passport along with supporting documents which included my british passport. But I've received a letter from the passport office saying they need to see my "permanent residence card" to prove that I was "free from immigration control" when my daughter was born. I do not have my BRP as I was required to submit it within 5 days of obtaining British citizenship. I happened to have a photocopy of my BRP which I'd sent but I've gotten a second letter now insisting on the "original Permanent residence permit card" and photocopies won't be accepted.

I called them up and explained that I do NOT have the BRP as I was required to submit it. They seem to be out of ideas and suggested that I call the home office and "ask for a letter"...

I'm puzzled by this - why are they still asking for the permanent residence card when I'm required to submit it ASAP after obtaining british citizenship. And what do I do now ??!

Any help or guidance will be much appreciated. Thanks.

Classic example of lack of joined up thinking within government and across departments.
You could apply for a SAR from UKVI which may help confirm you had ILR.

Why didn't you apply for the child's passport sooner, before having to send the BRP back after your ceremony??

Did you keep a copy of the BRP or a certified copy?

You might need to apply for a SAR?

This is another classic example of the lack of joined up thinking between Government departments when implementing a new system. You're certainly not alone with this problem.

As CR001 has already mentioned, if you submit a Subject Access Request (SAR) once received you can forward this to the Passport Office. This would provide the proof of ILR they are demanding.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... mmigration

CR001 wrote:Why didn't you apply for the child's passport sooner, before having to send the BRP back after your ceremony??

Did you keep a copy of the BRP or a certified copy?

You might need to apply for a SAR?

I sent a certified copy which was declined saying they can only accept originals. As for why I didn't apply sooner, I didn't know beforehand of this ridiculous requirement.

Thanks a lot. I'll apply for a SAR.

Senseless.

CR001 wrote:Why didn't you apply for the child's passport sooner, before having to send the BRP back after your ceremony??

This is irrelevent. The child was born a citizen according the laws of this nation. The child is entitled to a passport because of that. Even if there never existed such a thing as a BRP, this would be true.

ouflak1 wrote:

CR001 wrote:Why didn't you apply for the child's passport sooner, before having to send the BRP back after your ceremony??

This is irrelevent. The child was born a citizen according the laws of this nation. The child is entitled to a passport because of that. Even if there never existed such a thing as a BRP, this would be true.

And to show that they need proof. Just being born in the UK, does not give citizenship anymore.

Therefore what CR001 said, is correct. It would have been so much easier to have done this months ago when they had their BRPs as proof.

Petaltop wrote:

ouflak1 wrote:

CR001 wrote:Why didn't you apply for the child's passport sooner, before having to send the BRP back after your ceremony??

This is irrelevent. The child was born a citizen according the laws of this nation. The child is entitled to a passport because of that. Even if there never existed such a thing as a BRP, this would be true.

Therefore what CR001 said, is correct. It would have been so much easier to have done this months ago when they had their BRPs as proof.

I disagree. That's ridiculous to expect that a child who was born a citizen can't get a passport because of a five-day-window-versus-a-£1000-fine document.

Petaltop wrote:Just being born in the UK does not give citizenship anymore.

Not true.

British Nationality Act of 1981 wrote: 1. (1) A person born in the United Kingdom after commencement shall be a British citizen if at the time of the birth (or adoption) his father or mother is
- a British citizne; or
- settled in the United Kingdom.

The child was born a citizen, even by the more restrictive laws of today, and should be able to acquire a passport just like every other native born citizen can.

Petaltop is correct in that just being born in the UK has no automatic claim to BC if neither of the parents are settled (ILR or PR), unlike in the US for example.

They would have to submit a MN1 application before qualifying for a British passport. This is why the parents are being asked to prove they are settled and that no registration is required.

ouflak1 wrote:

Petaltop wrote:Just being born in the UK does not give citizenship anymore.

Not true.

British Nationality Act of 1981 wrote: 1. (1) A person born in the United Kingdom after commencement shall be a British citizen if at the time of the birth (or adoption) his father or mother is
- a British citizne; or
- settled in the United Kingdom.

Not entirely sure what you are getting at here, you seem to be backing up the point you are disagreeing with

The UK does not have unconditional jus soli any more. A child born in the UK will not automatically be a British citizen if at least one of the parents is not a British citizen or settled in the UK at the time of the birth. If one parent does then become settled, the child automatically gains an entitlement to be registered. They don't automatically become a British citizen.

The problem in this situation is when a children is born in the UK to parent(s) who are not British but ARE settled in the UK, they are automatically a British citizen at birth. But when applying for a passport for that child, the only reasonable way the parent can prove they were settled at the time of birth is by sending their ILR BRP. If the parent naturalises as British, they are required to destroy and return the BRP immediately. This is obviously a problem if they have not applied for a passport for the child before doing so, as they've been forced to destroy the only evidence they had that they were settled at the time of the child's birth.

As Oliver Hardy would say to the Home Office "Well , here's another nice mess you've gotten me into"

ohara wrote:

ouflak1 wrote:

Petaltop wrote:Just being born in the UK does not give citizenship anymore.

Not true.

British Nationality Act of 1981 wrote: 1. (1) A person born in the United Kingdom after commencement shall be a British citizen if at the time of the birth (or adoption) his father or mother is
- a British citizne; or
- settled in the United Kingdom.

Not entirely sure what you are getting at here, you seem to be backing up the point you are disagreeing with

The UK does not have unconditional jus soli any more. A child born in the UK will not automatically be a British citizen if at least one of the parents is not a British citizen or settled in the UK at the time of the birth. If one parent does then become settled, the child automatically gains an entitlement to be registered. They don't automatically become a British citizen.

The problem in this situation is when a children is born in the UK to parent(s) who are not British but ARE settled in the UK, they are automatically a British citizen at birth. But when applying for a passport for that child, the only reasonable way the parent can prove they were settled at the time of birth is by sending their ILR BRP. If the parent naturalises as British, they are required to destroy and return the BRP immediately. This is obviously a problem if they have not applied for a passport for the child before doing so, as they've been forced to destroy the only evidence they had that they were settled at the time of the child's birth.

Thanks. This is exactly the predicament I find myself in. If I'd known that the passport office would specifically ask for the BRP earlier when my child was born, I'd have applied for her passport earlier.

Anyway, the update is I've asked the home office for a letter or some evidence that I was settled before I applied for the passport (why isn't this obvious?). Home office have said that they will provide no such thing, because it is obvious - and stated passport office can look up the rules regarding surrendering BRP on the home office website.

I've let the passport office know now regarding the home office's stance. Now I'm waiting. I just hope that tomorrow a letter doesn't turn up saying the passport application has been declined

Hello powercozmic.
Unfortunately we are in the same situation now and I came across this thread. Wanted to know what you guys did next. We also have filled a subject Access request and have sent the Home Office letter with photocopy of the BRP to the HMPO. Did you get what you asked for from ukvi and then the passport?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks

You're unlikely to get an answer from those who asked the question originally- that person has not been on the forum since November 2016.

The solution is likely to apply for a Nationality Status Certificate. The Home Office can verify your settled status more efficiently than the Passport Office. https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... us-form-ns

JAJ wrote:You're unlikely to get an answer from those who asked the question originally- that person has not been on the forum since November 2016.

The solution is likely to apply for a Nationality Status Certificate. The Home Office can verify your settled status more efficiently than the Passport Office. https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... us-form-ns

Thank you so much for your help. This is I guess the best step in this condition. Now going to fill in the form but it doesn't mention fee anywhere. Can't seem to find it out on the website either. Can you please help with this too.
Also do I need to withdraw my passport application as HMPO has all the documents which I need to send here with this form.

Fee for a Nationality Status Letter is GBP234- and if you ask for your documents back from the Passport Office they will probably cancel the passport application and keep the fee. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... l_2017.pdf

A better approach- if the Passport Office refuse to accept a copy of the BRP- might be to contact your Member of Parliament and ask him or her to request from the Home Office Minister a reason why they are demanding an original of a document that someone is obliged to send back to the Home Office. (unreasonable request for documentation). The Passport Office is an agency of the Home Office and should be able to contact the Home Office to verify that the copy is true.

JAJ wrote:Fee for a Nationality Status Letter is GBP234- and if you ask for your documents back from the Passport Office they will probably cancel the passport application and keep the fee. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... l_2017.pdf

A better approach- if the Passport Office refuse to accept a copy of the BRP- might be to contact your Member of Parliament and ask him or her to request from the Home Office Minister a reason why they are demanding an original of a document that someone is obliged to send back to the Home Office. (unreasonable request for documentation). The Passport Office is an agency of the Home Office and should be able to contact the Home Office to verify that the copy is true.

Thanks for the help. Any idea how long that process would take? We decided to wait for a reply from HMPO as I have sent them a copy of ILR.

Hi SidraK,

Any update on your case. I'm in a similar boat! I'd appreciate how you got on with the British passport of your child.

Many Thanks

In my opinion, try to print the An form where it says to return Brp within 5 days after the naturalisation ceremony.

Secondly you can also print this from the gov website and send them copies of the printout explaining the rules.

https://www.gov.uk/becoming-a-british-c ... p-ceremony

Its clearly written there.

Also you can send them the copy of ILR approval letter From the homeoffice if you still have it.

Hope it will work.