Immigrationboards.com

Hello all!

Need some specific advice on my case relating to British citizenship. Actually, it is pretty complicated and I have done a lot of research online but haven't been able to get a definitive answer to resolve few doubts about my case which is as follows:

I am an Indian national holding an Indian passport but currently residing in France on a student visa.I was born in the year 1989 in India.
My father is also Indian national having an Indian passport and residing in Indian since 1972.
However, he was born in the UK in the year 1964 when my grandparents(who are also Indian citizens and residing in India) were living there on work visas. My grandparents lived in the UK for approx. 10 years after which they decided to return to India and my father accompanied them as a child and I guess that is why he has never held a British passport since he was allowed to return to India on my grandfather's passport.
Now, as per the following link : https://www.gov.uk/check-british-citizen, my father is a British citizen since there are only 2 cases where he will not be considered a British citizen and I can confirm that he does not fall under any of the 2 cases mentioned there.
If I run the questionnaire on the above link for my case i.e. born after 01/01/1983, not born in the UK or qualifying territory and having either father or mother a British citizen 'otherwise than by descent' then I am also a British citizen 'by descent' by virtue of my father being a British citizen as discussed in the preceeding paragraph.
All good upto here. But the query that I have in my mind is whether my father would still be considered a British citizen at the time of my birth since he neither held a British passport nor was resident in Britain.? The only thing he has is his Original Birth certificate as proof of having been born in the UK in 1964.
Another point to be kept in mind is that India does not allow dual citizenship.

I would be grateful if someone could help me out on the above case.

Thanks in advance
Mridul

As I see it, and I'm probably wrong, even if your father is British, he's is otherwise than by descent and cannot pass it on.

Wanderer wrote:As I see it, and I'm probably wrong, even if your father is British, he's is otherwise than by descent and cannot pass it on.

Well from what I read, "A person born outside the UK on or after 01/01/83 is a British citizen, if at the time of birth, either parent was a British citizen otherwise than by descent" and this is excatly my case.

Wanderer wrote:As I see it, and I'm probably wrong, even if your father is British, he's is otherwise than by descent and cannot pass it on.

It can be passed on if father was 'otherwise than by descent'. It is 'BC by descent' ie. if father was born abroad to BC born parents, that cannot be passed on to children also born abroad.

I think that you are British.

vinny wrote:I think that you are British.

That's the point. I also think that I am British but then how do I know for sure before applying.. Any suggestions? TIA

You may optionally apply for
Confirmation of British nationality or
a consular birth registration or
just apply for either
a British passport or
CoE-RoA.

vinny wrote:You may optionally apply for
Confirmation of British nationality or
a consular birth registration or
just apply for either
a British passport or
CoE-RoA.

Thanks a lot for the info.
I myself have been thinking of going for confirmation of British Nationality status but have another question relating to it. Is it necessary for me to submit my parent's marriage certificate even if I am claiming British citizenship from my father? This is because I don't think my parent's have an official marriage certificate.I would, however, be submitting my birth certificate and my father's birth certificate.

Unfortunately, prior to 1 July 2006, for your father to automatically pass on British citizenship to you, it was necessary for him to have been married to your mother.

However, you may be entitled to register.

Does the fact that India does not allow dual nationality affect anything in a case like this?

On acquisition of British citizenship, the OP will lose Indian citizenship.

Being a British citizen by descent, the OP can not pass on his British citizenship to his own children unless either they are born in the UK or they are registered as British citizens after having lived with him for three years in the UK. I am assuming that the OP has not lived for three years in the UK himself yet.

secret.simon wrote:On acquisition of British citizenship, the OP will lose Indian citizenship.

Being a British citizen by descent, the OP can not pass on his British citizenship to his own children unless either they are born in the UK or they are registered as British citizens after having lived with him for three years in the UK. I am assuming that the OP has not lived for three years in the UK himself yet.

OP?

mriduljain wrote:

secret.simon wrote:On acquisition of British citizenship, the OP will lose Indian citizenship.

Being a British citizen by descent, the OP can not pass on his British citizenship to his own children unless either they are born in the UK or they are registered as British citizens after having lived with him for three years in the UK. I am assuming that the OP has not lived for three years in the UK himself yet.

OP?

OP = Original Poster

CR001 wrote:

mriduljain wrote:

secret.simon wrote:On acquisition of British citizenship, the OP will lose Indian citizenship.

Being a British citizen by descent, the OP can not pass on his British citizenship to his own children unless either they are born in the UK or they are registered as British citizens after having lived with him for three years in the UK. I am assuming that the OP has not lived for three years in the UK himself yet.

OP?

OP = Original Poster

Thanks!

vinny wrote:You may optionally apply for
Confirmation of British nationality or
a consular birth registration or
just apply for either
a British passport or
CoE-RoA.

Got another question : Can I apply for a RoA on my Indian passport?
Would that be valid since having a RoA on Indian passport automatically means that I am a British citizen which is not allowed as per Indian laws until I give up Indian nationality/citizenship...

mriduljain wrote:Can I apply for a RoA on my Indian passport?

Not if you acquire British citizenship by registration on form UKF (because your parent's marriage certificate is missing). On acquisition of a foreign nationality, you lose your Indian citizenship and hence your right to an Indian passport.

The only people who could have CoE-RoA on an Indian passport are minors (under 18) who are born either to a British citizen and an Indian citizen or to an Indian citizen holding ILR in the UK. At 18, they must elect to either renounce their foreign citizenship (keeping their Indian citizenship) or keep their foreign citizenship (terminating their Indian citizenship).

There is a plausible argument that children born to a foreign citizen and an Indian citizen in India can retain both citizenships for the rest of their life, so long as they do not acquire a non-Indian passport. In such a case, you can argue that you can have CoE-RoA in an Indian passport at any age. But I am sure that you would have had the pleasure of arguing with Indian babudom. See Citizenship by birth vs Citizenship by descent on the Ministry of Home Affairs website.

secret.simon wrote:

mriduljain wrote:Can I apply for a RoA on my Indian passport?

No. On acquisition of a foreign nationality, you lose your Indian citizenship and hence your right to an Indian passport.

The only people who could have CoE-RoA on an Indian passport are minors (under 18) who are born either to a British citizen and an Indian citizen or to an Indian citizen holding ILR in the UK. At 18, they must elect to either renounce their foreign citizenship (keeping their Indian citizenship) or keep their foreign citizenship (terminating their Indian citizenship).

Thanks so much secret.simon!!
So from the above discussion,the only way for me to exercise my right as a British citizen is to obtain a British passport..
I would be grateful if you could please confirm this.

I have amended my text above with more specific text and a link for you to explore.

In addition, a CoE-RoA will only give you the right to reside and work within the UK. It does not give you any rights of a British citizen abroad, such as in the EU. So, from the viewpoint of French or German or other EU immigration, you will be an Indian citizen (from your passport) and will need to meet all the requirements for Indian citizens.

The only way for you to exercise rights as a British citizen abroad would be with a British passport. And that would require you to surrender your Indian passport (as per Indian law, not British law).

secret.simon wrote:I have amended my text above with more specific text and a link for you to explore.

In addition, a CoE-RoA will only give you the right to reside and work within the UK. It does not give you any rights of a British citizen abroad, such as in the EU. So, from the viewpoint of French or German or other EU immigration, you will be an Indian citizen (from your passport) and will need to meet all the requirements for Indian citizens.

The only way for you to exercise rights as a British citizen abroad would be with a British passport. And that would require you to surrender your Indian passport (as per Indian law, not British law).

Thanks once again secret.simon!! You have helped me more than the useless immigration consultants I have had the misfortune of dealing with since the last couple of weeks..
The basic purpose of my applying for a RoA on my Indian passport is to get better job opportunities in the UK since as you may be knowing, non-EU citizens like me need sponsorship from the employer in order to work in the UK and I figured that having RoA would have allowed me to bypass this since I would have the right to live and work in the UK.

mriduljain wrote:having RoA would have allowed me to bypass this since I would have the right to live and work in the UK.

So would a British passport And you would be able to work anywhere in the EU, at least till 2019.

secret.simon wrote:

mriduljain wrote:having RoA would have allowed me to bypass this since I would have the right to live and work in the UK.

So would a British passport And you would be able to work anywhere in the EU, at least till 2019.

True. But at this stage of my career, I am unwilling to give up Indian citizenship at the moment since my entire family lives in India...

mriduljain wrote:True. But at this stage of my career, I am unwilling to give up Indian citizenship at the moment since my entire family lives in India...

British citizenship + OCI?

Remember that there is no time like the present. Rules and laws are susceptible to change. They will not change overnight, but they will, over time.

secret.simon wrote:

mriduljain wrote:True. But at this stage of my career, I am unwilling to give up Indian citizenship at the moment since my entire family lives in India...

British citizenship + OCI?

Remember that there is no time like the present. Rules and laws are susceptible to change. They will not change overnight, but they will, over time.

Dear secret.simon

Thanks a lot for your valuable guidance.
What you said made sense and I am have now decided to apply for my first adult British passport.
I have read the website of the Home office as well as this forum but have not been able to find out exactly what is the process involved for the same.
From what I have understood, I can apply for my first adult passport from within or from outside the UK.
However, the procedure and the time taken is different in both cases. Since the time taken is less if I make the application from within the UK, I plan to come to the UK on a standard visitor visa and making the application once I am there by using either the online service or the check and send service.( My aunt and uncle are settled British citizens and can sponsor my visit. I have already visited the UK in 2014 and 2016). Does the fact that I will be coming into the UK on a short term visit visa and making the application then hamper my chances of getting the passport?
Moreover, the normal processing time for application made within the UK is 6 weeks. What is the maximum time that it might take considering the fact that my case is not the usual naturalisation/registration one?
Also, I would need to appear for an interview. Is that it or do I need to pass a life in the UK test? Also, do I need to have the good character requirements?
Most importantly, when would I need to submit my Indian passport to HMPO? Do I need to send it with the other supporting documents at the time of making the application or do I need to send it afterwards. I ask this because I would like to travel to France after making my passport application since I would not be able to do any kind of work while in the UK on the visit visa.
I am really confused at the moment as to how to proceed.
Your guidance would go a long way in helping me.

Thanks in advance.

Registration required, if your father and mother were not married.

vinny wrote:Registration required, if your father was not married to your mother.

Thanks for your reply!
My father was married to my mother at the time of my birth. I have their marriage certificate as proof.
Can I straight away apply for British passport in such a case?