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This is probably the only thing I haven't taken into account. I didn't think that the word "professional" would mean what it does. After living in the UK for six years now I don't think I know any professional for three years, not personally... well... I guess it depends on the meaning of the word "personally". The list includes dentists, bank official, police officer, MP. Yes I met all mentioned above but I don't think they even remember me. Like I don't think Lloyds bank official who opened a business account for me even remembers my face. I asked my MP for help when the HO refused my application, and he really helped but he never saw me. I go to a dentist but every time at the clinic it was another dentist, and I don't think they would remember me - I dont' remember them. Can any of them be a referee?

A minister of religion, an off licence owner that holds a personal licence, manager at work, director of limited company, etc etc

CR001 wrote:A minister of religion, an off licence owner that holds a personal licence, manager at work, director of limited company, etc etc

Yes, I know. But none of them know me for 3 years unfortunately.

Teachers also count as professionals—are any of your friends teachers? How about nurses, chemists, opticians, paralegals, social workers, approved driving instructors, funeral directors, or members of Her Majesty's Armed Forces?

Tea_Rocket wrote:Teachers also count as professionals—are any of your friends teachers? How about nurses, chemists, opticians, paralegals, social workers, approved driving instructors, funeral directors, or members of Her Majesty's Armed Forces?

I have a friend, a graduated lawyer, also a translator. He works for the Ministry of Justice, translating at courts, Tribunals etc. But he is not a solicitor or barista. So, if he is not good enough, I got nothing.

Is your friend a registered Paralegal? Also if he works for the government, he is a civil servant (on the list) but must be a permanent employee.

https://www.gov.im/media/624353/listofreferees.pdf

I am finding it hard to believe that there has been no integration as such after 6 years in the UK and that there is not one person you know for at least 3 years that is on the list.

CR001 wrote:Is your friend a registered Paralegal? Also if he works for the government, he is a civil servant (on the list) but must be a permanent employee.

He is not registered paralegal, and he is not a permanent employee, just a contractor.

I'd already checked the list

CR001 wrote:I am finding it hard to believe that there has been no integration as such after 6 years in the UK and that there is not one person you know for at least 3 years that is on the list.

Why? I have no kids, I have passed school age, - so no teachers. I am generally healthy - no nurses, never needed a solicitor, never met a fireman, don't know personally a police officer (pity, they are handsome! ). I have always had good eyesight and bought my first reading glasses a year ago. Well, of course, I went to a dentist, and when I was knocked off my bicycle police and paramedics arrived, and I bought painkillers at a chemist after the accident. It happened over three years ago and all of them would fit but none of them would remember me. I opened a business account at Lloyds, and it was over three years ago. Do you think I will be able to find that worker and persuade her to be my referee? Doubt it.

Actually if one does not have children, generally healthy, never required help from the council or solicitors, and does not select friends based on their professional accreditation finding a professional referee could be tricky. Easier if you live in a smaller town, but I live in London.

Then I guess you have an issue to resolve.

Any professional back home that you could use?

CR001 wrote:Then I guess you have an issue to resolve.

Any professional back home that you could use?

Not back home, no. I left home country over a quarter of century ago. I still have recommendation letters from my professors from Chicago. They sure remember me. Will they do?

Are you in employment? If so- you must know (to the extent required for nationality purposes) a personnel officer at your place of employment. Or former employment, if employed less than 3 years. In a smaller company, you would probably know one of the directors and most companies have at least one qualified accountant on the payroll. You may well find a Justice of the Peace or central government (except Home Office) or local government employee among your circle of friends. In a union- a trade union officer can qualify. And so on. But- as a last resort, teacher/lecturer does qualify and there is no absolute requirement that a reference come from a U.K. resident although it does risk a complication or delay as it would unusual for U.K. resident applicants to have non-U.K. based references.

The second reference doesn't have to come from a professional person- any British citizen aged 25 or over can act in this capacity.

A person signing as reference does need to have known you (to some extent) for the 3 years but does not need to be a personal friend and is not required to give any particular recommendation over and above what is detailed on form AN. Which primarily relates to confirmation of ID.

JAJ wrote:Are you in employment? If so- you must know (to the extent required for nationality purposes) a personnel officer at your place of employment. Or former employment, if employed less than 3 years.

Thank you JAJ. I have been employed for less than 3 years, and prior to that I was self-employed. I still am actually. While self-employed I work online and met only one client face to face, though a few times a year. And that one is a big international company. So I work as a contractor, interact with project managers only and have never seen a director or an accountant or HR, I doubt the company employees ever seen the director either. Can a project manager be a referee? I am not sure about accreditation though.

JAJ wrote:You may well find a Justice of the Peace or central government (except Home Office) or local government employee among your circle of friends. In a union- a trade union officer can qualify. And so on.

Now I got it. I work like a horse, full time work (unsocial hours), part-time self-employed, don't take me wrong I am not complaining/moaning, but that particular requirement is easy to fulfil by people who have some life apart from work. The brutal reality is I don't... which is sad. I got a few friends who I see a few times a year. None of them has any professional accreditation. Honestly I am not sure how I can survive in this city and have some life. Basically it is possible either by getting a better paid job (which I would've if I could), or by cutting down expenses (like living with parents that is if one was borne in the uk) or by claiming benefits. If you are none of those, you got no life apart from work and it also means poor integration. So much irony.

JAJ wrote:But- as a last resort, teacher/lecturer does qualify and there is no absolute requirement that a reference come from a U.K. resident although it does risk a complication or delay as it would unusual for U.K. resident applicants to have non-U.K. based references.

I understand, thank you. I went to a dentist the other day, and she has known me for over 3 years but the clinic is not NHS. What do you think?

I understand, thank you. I went to a dentist the other day, and she has known me for over 3 years but the clinic is not NHS. What do you think?

I don' believe there is a requirement for the dentist to be NHS. You should be fine

ratapita wrote:

I understand, thank you. I went to a dentist the other day, and she has known me for over 3 years but the clinic is not NHS. What do you think?

I don' believe there is a requirement for the dentist to be NHS. You should be fine

It's good news! Thanks a lot, Ratapita!

CR001 wrote:
I am finding it hard to believe that there has been no integration as such after 6 years in the UK and that there is not one person you know for at least 3 years that is on the list.

I have lived in this country for 10 years, and believe it or now, I know no one from the list of professionals who could help. I do have many friends, but most work in hospitality/retail/travel agencies or do desk jobs that are not important enough clearly to make it on the list. I don't go to the doctor often and I have never been to the dentist here. I don't know lawyers nor company directors. I have worked as self-employed for a while. Does that mean I am badly integrated in the society or makes me abnormal? Don't think so. Most of my said British friends also don't know anyone on that list, so it is not so unbelievable after all.