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Hi,

We're planning to obtain Consular Birth certificate for a child born to British parents outside UK.
Reference:
https://www.gov.uk/register-a-birth

I know that only person who has claim to British citizenship could apply for this certificate
But Does this certificate contains explicit mention of child being BRITISH?

Has anyone actually obtained this certificate for their child, could please clarify above question?

Cheers,

While I have not applied for the certificate and could not locate an image of it online, it seems that it does state the child's and parents' citizenship on it.

British Consular Birth registration wrote:The certificate resembles a full birth certificate as issued in the UK with the addition of the parents' and child's entitlement to British citizenship under British nationality law.

Warning

As of 01/09/2014 ‘consular birth certificates’ issued for registrations after 01/01/1983 or certified copies of pre 01/01/1983 births issued after 01/01/2014 are no longer accepted by HM Passport Office as evidence of British Nationality or proof of personal/parental details for children born outside the UK. A foreign birth certificate as well as full evidence of a legitimate claim by decent must be provided as for any other birth overseas.

British consular registered births

Since 1 September 2014 not all consular birth certificates are acceptable for passport purposes. If a customer sends a consular birth certificate with their application, they may also need to send a foreign birth certificate.

See the ‘Consular birth certificates’ section in Dealing with customer documents guidance.

The ‘Consular birth certificates’ section in Dealing with customer documents guidance does not exist?

vinny wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:24 am

Warning

As of 01/09/2014 ‘consular birth certificates’ issued for registrations after 01/01/1983 or certified copies of pre 01/01/1983 births issued after 01/01/2014 are no longer accepted by HM Passport Office as evidence of British Nationality or proof of personal/parental details for children born outside the UK. A foreign birth certificate as well as full evidence of a legitimate claim by decent must be provided as for any other birth overseas.

Is form NS a better option?
do they send some sort of certificate / document if there's valid claim for British nationality?
Or do they just inform you've claim for BC?

Cheers,

Bobthemoggie wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:25 pm

Is form NS a better option?

Unfortunately, no.

Unsure of the purpose of both these two documents, if they are unacceptable to HMPO.

vinny wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:39 pm

Bobthemoggie wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:25 pm

Is form NS a better option?

Unfortunately, no.

Unsure of the purpose of both these two documents, if they are unacceptable to HMPO.

Thanks for the response.
We do not need either of these documents for British passport application purpose.

Just need it for non-passport related decorative purposes & perhaps for schooling , education etc.. where its sometimes bit difficult to explain CoE-RoA endorsement, as it do not highlight person being British.
So, in that case which one of these document clearly mentions person being British & have mention of the person's date of birth?

Kindly suggest.

Cheers,

vinny wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:39 pm

Unsure of the purpose of both these two documents, if they are unacceptable to HMPO.

The primary purpose of the consular birth certificate is to have the birth of the child recorded in the UK birth and deaths register, which may come in handy for other legal purposes, perhaps even in a few decades time (in the lifetime of the child's own children or grandchildren).

The purpose of Form NS as I understand it is for the Home Office to have a look at the records that the applicant has presented and declare whether it believes that the applicant is a British citizen or not. That is likely more for the purpose of other foreign governments requiring such authentication.

As I understand it, there is no single document that serves as proof of British citizenship for a child who is born a British citizen, because it is based on the circumstances of their birth. They would need to provide additional documentation documenting those circumstances at the time of their birth, typically the status of the parents at the time of their birth.

The British citizenship of people who are registered or naturalised as British citizens arises from their certificate of naturalisation or registration and hence it is determinative proof of their citizenship.

What kind of message is the HMPO trying to send to applicants by rejecting documents issued from other Government departments?

The other Government Departments lack the expertise and integrity to produce these documents?
These documents are not worth the Government paper that they are printed on?
There is discord among Government departments?
Arrogance?

If HMPO do not accept these Government issued documents, then why should anyone else accept them?

It is not for mere mortals to understand the ways of God (not even the one in the House of Lords), not even after reading the divine guidance and Acts (of Parliament), but to accept what is and move on in life.

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:49 pm

but to accept what is and move on in life.

That’s excellent advice.

An example of a Consular Birth Certificate, first registered in 1921!

As secret.simon said, they should look different today.

Copies of birth certificates held at British Consulates

A certified copy of an entry in a Register of Births held at a British Consulate was historically accepted as evidence of British Nationality in their own right. Following a Reform Order issued by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO), consular birth registrations for children born since 01/01/1983 and certified copied of registrations issued after 01/01/2014 for children born before 01/01/1983 are no longer considered as nationality documents. This means that additional proof of a nationality claim must also be supplied.

@secret.simon,

Can you see anything in the Reform Order or The Legislative Reform (Overseas Registration of Births and Deaths) Order 2014 that gives the authority for HPMO to disregard all Consular Birth Certificates as evidence of British nationality? Or was this an imaginary excuse for an unsuspecting applicant?

vinny wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:03 am

Can you see anything in the Reform Order or The Legislative Reform (Overseas Registration of Births and Deaths) Order 2014 that gives the authority for HPMO to disregard all Consular Birth Certificates as evidence of British nationality? Or was this an imaginary excuse for an unsuspecting applicant?

Possibly Section 12 of the Registration of Overseas Births and Deaths Regulations 2014?

It seems to suggest that consular birth and death certificates can be amended or even cancelled if new information comes to light about the birth/death in question. If that is the case, it would logically follow that a consular birth certificate, like a British passport, is not *determinative*/incontrovertible proof of British citizenship, merely prima facie proof.

And we know that occasionally applicants have been asked to demonstrate their British citizenship with original documentation when renewing their existing British passports. If there is an equivalence between consular British birth certificates and British passports, it follows that HMPO can ask for further proof of British citizenship, going beyond the consular birth certificate.

This interpretation is not a legal opinion, merely a textual reading of the regulations and the application of personal logic.

Yes. I agree that some Consular Birth Certificates may be questionable, requiring additional primary documents. Similar to British passports and CoE-RoAs, they do not confer British citizenship. However, if HMPO disregard all certificates as evidence of British citizenship without a lawful basis, then they undermine the certificate’s Issuing Public Authority. What’s stopping another Government department from disregarding all British Passports as evidence of British citizenship?

Similar to

75

I conclude by observing that it is very unfortunate that SSHD was apparently unaware of the existence of the Tribunal Determination, despite the decision maker in this case having access to Home Office files and databases with information about Mr Miah's immigration history. It seems that Home Office files and databases were either incomplete, or were inadequately examined, or that there are broader failures of communication between the various limbs of Government such as HM Courts & Tribunal Service, the Foreign & Commonwealth Office and the Home Office. The consequence is that Mr Miah's passport application has now been outstanding for over six years; his Bangladeshi passport has presumably been in the hands of the authorities during the whole of that period and therefore unavailable to him; and through no fault or wrongdoing on Mr Miah's part, the threat of removal has been hanging over him and his family for over three years. This is highly regrettable.

It’s highly regrettable.