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Good Character
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:35 pm
by Bucks
Hello Guys
Need some help please.
I am about to apply for naturalisation application but I am not sure if I will be rejected on good character grounds?
ILR issued 2012
ILR revoked 2016 and was given a right to make a chargeable application under private life and made an application within 2 weeks and on 2017 visa was issued.
ILR granted 2020
Thanks in advance
Re: Good Character
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:42 pm
by secret.simon
Bucks wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:35 pm
ILR revoked 2016
What were the grounds for the revocation of ILR?
Re: Good Character
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:46 pm
by Bucks
secret.simon wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:42 pm
Bucks wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:35 pm
ILR revoked 2016
What were the grounds for the revocation of ILR?
Different date of birth
Re: Good Character
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:54 pm
by secret.simon
Bucks wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:46 pm
secret.simon wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:42 pm
Bucks wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:35 pm
ILR revoked 2016
What were the grounds for the revocation of ILR?
Different date of birth
Did they say that it was deception or did the Home Office in any way indicate that the information was false? What was the basis for the original ILR (spousal/PBS/etc)? What was the basis of the subsequent ILR?
Have you applied for a
SAR with the Home Office to see what they have on record about you?
Re: Good Character
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:56 pm
by Bucks
secret.simon wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:54 pm
Bucks wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:46 pm
secret.simon wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:42 pm
Bucks wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:35 pm
ILR revoked 2016
What were the grounds for the revocation of ILR?
Different date of birth
Did they say that it was deception or did the Home Office in any way indicate that the information was false? What was the basis for the original ILR (spousal/PBS/etc)? Have you applied for a
SAR with the Home Office to see what they have on record about you?
Claimed asylum and gave wrong DOB back in 2003
Re: Good Character
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:00 pm
by Bucks
Bucks wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:56 pm
secret.simon wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:54 pm
Bucks wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:46 pm
secret.simon wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:42 pm
What were the grounds for the revocation of ILR?
Different date of birth
Did they say that it was deception or did the Home Office in any way indicate that the information was false? What was the basis for the original ILR (spousal/PBS/etc)? Have you applied for a
SAR with the Home Office to see what they have on record about you?
Claimed asylum and gave wrong DOB back in 2003
Yes they said was a deception and they revoked 1st one,and the 2nd ILR was issued on the spouses basis
Re: Good Character
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:05 pm
by secret.simon
I suggest that you apply for a
SAR with the Home Office, because if deception has been raised as a concern in an earlier immigration application, that will almost certainly trigger a closer investigation of your naturalisation application and may even trigger a refusal.
I'd invite
@Obie and
@vinny to advise further as this is a fairly niche scenario.
Re: Good Character
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:48 am
by vinny
How did your DOB become an issue? Did you apply for naturalisation in/prior to 2016, declaring a different DOB?
Re: Good Character
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:28 am
by Bucks
vinny wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:48 am
How did your DOB become an issue? Did you apply for naturalisation in/prior to 2016, declaring a different DOB?
Hi Vinny
I did disclosed myself voluntarily and wrote a letter to HO and admitted of lying around 2004 , so they new about it quite awhile and they decided to revoked 2016 and on the revocations letter give me a right to make further application and I did straight away.
So my concern is not about the deception as they knew about it and I didn’t produce any fake documents with an application that was only when claimed asylum when I lied.
But my concern is from when my LTR was revoked till I was granted visa was I an overstayer or illegal immigration?
Re: Good Character
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:32 am
by Bucks
secret.simon wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:05 pm
I suggest that you apply for a
SAR with the Home Office, because if deception has been raised as a concern in an earlier immigration application, that will almost certainly trigger a closer investigation of your naturalisation application and may even trigger a refusal.
I'd invite @Obie and @vinny to advise further as this is a fairly niche scenario.
Hi Simon
I have SAR and the reason was because I admitted myself and told them truth who I was so the revoked on that basis that I laying when claimed asylum
Re: Good Character
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:21 am
by vinny
It was a bit harsh. Was the different date of birth
material to the grant of asylum and (
revoked) ILR?
Did they grant any substitute leave immediately after revocation?
Re: Good Character
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:20 am
by Bucks
vinny wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:21 am
It was a bit harsh. Was the different date of birth
material to the grant of asylum and (
revoked) ILR?
Did they grant any substitute leave immediately after revocation?
After revocation I send them an additional grounds why I can stay in uk and they replayed that you need to make a chargeable application and I did and I was granted after 6 months of waiting chasing
Re: Good Character
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:22 am
by Bucks
vinny wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:21 am
It was a bit harsh. Was the different date of birth
material to the grant of asylum and (
revoked) ILR?
Did they grant any substitute leave immediately after revocation?
It was not material but they decided to revoked anyway
Re: Good Character
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:41 am
by Bucks
Bucks wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:22 am
vinny wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:21 am
It was a bit harsh. Was the different date of birth
material to the grant of asylum and (
revoked) ILR?
Did they grant any substitute leave immediately after revocation?
It was not material but they decided to revoked anyway
Could you please advise
Re: Good Character
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:03 am
by vinny
If the date of birth was not material to the grant of the first ILR, e.g. they didn’t consider you as a child because of a wrong date of birth, etc., then they shouldn’t have revoked your ILR. It’s surprising that they did that, especially if they took a further
12 years to do it.
64.
The Home Office guidance on
revocation of indefinite leave to remain notes that indefinite leave would not normally be revoked where the deception in question occurred more than five years ago. The longer a person has been in the UK, or crucially, the more time it has been since the incident, the less likely it will be appropriate to revoke ILR.
Re: Good Character
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:28 am
by Bucks
vinny wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:03 am
If the date of birth was not material to the grant of the first ILR, e.g. they didn’t consider you as a child because of a wrong date of birth, etc., then they shouldn’t have revoked your ILR. It’s surprising that they did that, especially if they took a further
12 years to do it.
64.
The Home Office guidance on
revocation of indefinite leave to remain notes that indefinite leave would not normally be revoked where the deception in question occurred more than five years ago. The longer a person has been in the UK, or crucially, the more time it has been since the incident, the less likely it will be appropriate to revoke ILR.
They did and the lawyer at the time advised me to apply for LTR.
What will happen if I apply for naturalisation will they refused on the good character grounds?
Re: Good Character
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:31 am
by Bucks
Bucks wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:28 am
vinny wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:03 am
If the date of birth was not material to the grant of the first ILR, e.g. they didn’t consider you as a child because of a wrong date of birth, etc., then they shouldn’t have revoked your ILR. It’s surprising that they did that, especially if they took a further
12 years to do it.
64.
The Home Office guidance on
revocation of indefinite leave to remain notes that indefinite leave would not normally be revoked where the deception in question occurred more than five years ago. The longer a person has been in the UK, or crucially, the more time it has been since the incident, the less likely it will be appropriate to revoke ILR.
They did and the lawyer at the time advised me to apply for LTR.
What will happen if I apply for naturalisation will they refused on the good character grounds?
I am just not sure from the time ILR was revoked till a LTR was granted
Re: Good Character
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:35 am
by vinny
Unsure. They may consider you as an overstayer during the time that you didn’t have any leave. However, if the initial indefinite leave to remain was not shown to have been obtained by deception, then they may consider the revocation of it to be an error.
Re: Good Character
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:48 am
by Bucks
vinny wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:35 am
Unsure. They may consider you as an overstayer during the time that you didn’t have any leave. However, if the initial indefinite leave to remain was not shown to have been obtained by deception, then they may consider the revocation of it to be an error.
When the revoked the ILR, HO stated that the ILR is revoked as I used deception and if you have any additional ground why you wish to remain in UK.
So I did give the grounds and applied for LTR.
I did apply for LTR straight after the ILR was revoked it was less then two weeks.
I also worked through all the time till I was granted LTR, even when I made a LTR application I stated on the application form that I,m working and where I,m working.
Re: Good Character
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:51 pm
by Bucks
Bucks wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:48 am
vinny wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:35 am
Unsure. They may consider you as an overstayer during the time that you didn’t have any leave. However, if the initial indefinite leave to remain was not shown to have been obtained by deception, then they may consider the revocation of it to be an error.
When the revoked the ILR, HO stated that the ILR is revoked as I used deception and if you have any additional ground why you wish to remain in UK.
So I did give the grounds and applied for LTR.
I did apply for LTR straight after the ILR was revoked it was less then two weeks.
I also worked through all the time till I was granted LTR, even when I made a LTR application I stated on the application form that I,m working and where I,m working.
Please Vinny advise is it worthy to apply for naturalisation? What will you do if you were in my position?
Thanks in advance
Re: Good Character
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:59 pm
by Zerubbabel
Hello
I have seen people changing date of birth. Either to get their age under 18 and benefit from more lenient rules or in a broader context of assuming a new identity were everything is changed including name, place of birth... etc.
So for a potential citizenship application you lodge, there are 2 potential issues:
1 - The deception itself: seen from the Home Office point of view, this would shed an unfavourable light on your character. They may disregard it but usually they expect a good 10 years since the deception was discovered or made known to the Home Office. So in terms of eligibility, we will be looking at 2026.
2 - This is much more serious than point 1. The deception wasn't about a payslip, an invoice or a proof of address. The deception was about your date of birth. So they may think: who are you? As this places you in a category of people who go from country to country claiming asylum with different IDs and stories in the hope that it may stick somewhere. When it comes to citizenship, the standard of proof is much higher than on immigration routes (British Citizenship is not an immigration application). If they have doubts on who you are, this may delay your citizenship for years.
About the deception: was it discovered or did you decide to go clean and inform the Home Office?
Again, for the citizenship, there is no way you guess the outcome. You need to apply and see what happens.
Re: Good Character
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:07 pm
by vinny
Bucks wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:28 am
I did disclosed myself voluntarily and wrote a letter to HO and admitted of lying around 2004 , so they new about it quite awhile and they decided to revoked 2016 and on the revocations letter give me a right to make further application and I did straight away.
So my concern is not about the deception as they knew about it and I didn’t produce any bad quality documents with an application that was only when claimed asylum when I lied.
But my concern is from when my LTR was revoked till I was granted visa was I an overstayer or illegal immigration?
Re: Good Character
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:20 pm
by Bucks
vinny wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:07 pm
Bucks wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:28 am
I did disclosed myself voluntarily and wrote a letter to HO and admitted of lying around 2004 , so they new about it quite awhile and they decided to revoked 2016 and on the revocations letter give me a right to make further application and I did straight away.
So my concern is not about the deception as they knew about it and I didn’t produce any bad quality documents with an application that was only when claimed asylum when I lied.
But my concern is from when my LTR was revoked till I was granted visa was I an overstayer or illegal immigration?
I really don’t know what to do otherwise will be waste of £
Re: Good Character
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:32 pm
by Zerubbabel
With a deception so serious that is led to the revocation of your ILR just 4 years ago, I don't believe a citizenship application will be successful in 2020. So if the money is a factor, I don't recommend applying now as it will only set you back by nearly £1400.
Re: Good Character
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:43 pm
by Bucks
Zerubbabel wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:32 pm
With a deception so serious that is led to the revocation of your ILR just 4 years ago, I don't believe a citizenship application will be successful in 2020. So if the money is a factor, I don't recommend applying now as it will only set you back by nearly £1400.
Thank you Zerubbabel
Well money is the main reason if HO will refused is nothing else to loose I think apart from £1400
If is less then 50% chance of succeeding is not worth it the waiting game and pain.
So to be on the safe net when will I have 100% chance of succeeding?
Many Thanks in advance