Immigrationboards.com

Hi,
I am in United States on work visa and have Indian Passport .I am looking to apply for UKM Passport registration as I am born to a British Mother (British Subject :CUKC  ) on her last expired passport .She stayed /worked in Manchester ,England from 1967-1970.Last British passport was issued in Liverpool (17 Feb 1970) and expired in 1980.I was born in 1977 and My brother in 1972  in India and My Mom was born in 1947 in Nakuru Kenya (mentioned on her birth certificate).Her 2 sisters and 1 brother all are also british citizens (dual) and live in United States.
My maternal grandparents(now deceased) were british citizens by naturalization or Registration (born in India) and stayed and worked earlier in Nakuru and then since 1967 in Isleworth ,London and have their property there..I have their Passport credentials and london property address if required.
Can you please guide the Path to UKM .Passport .Registration.I appreciate your help in this regard.
Thanks.

In order for you to be able to apply for British citizenship based on Form UKM, you will need to prove that your mother had both CUKC and Right of Abode (RoA) before your birth.

When and where did your maternal grandparents register/naturalise? If they registered/naturalised as CUKC in Kenya, that may not be of much help, as to acquire RoA, the registration/naturalisation needs to have happened in either the UK or at a British High Commission.

Did your grandparents registration/naturalisation occur before your mother's birth? If it was after your mother's birth, do you know if she was registered as a CUKC in the UK?

If your mother did not live in the UK for five years as a CUKC, it is possible that she did not acquire RoA in her own right. So, she did not become a British citizen when the law changed in 1983, but a British Overseas Citizen. That status can't be acquired through Form UKM and in any case it does not give you the right to reside in the UK.

mslibraoctww wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:08 pm

Her 2 sisters and 1 brother all are also british citizens

Did your uncles and aunts live for more than five years in the UK before 1983? If they had CUKC status and then lived in the UK for more than five years, they would have become British citizens in 1983.

@secret.simon:
Thanks ,i was looking reply from you based on your responses to so many individuals.
Replying to your questions:
My mom's british passport made in Liverpool just shows stamp"British Subject: Citizen of United Kingdom and colonies" RoA status came into pic in 1971 so i don't see that on her passport somewhere separately.

My Grandparents did naturalize in England in 70's (i don't know exact year).They both were employed in british airways there may be 20-30 years. So obviously that was after birth of my mom. I don't see any registration document with her cancelled (from Kenya)and expired passports (From England).She lived in UK 3 year sand not 5 years.
My Uncles i am sure did stay in UK more than 5 years before moving to US but Aunts i am not sure as they got married in US from India (after coming back to India from Nakuru Kenya in 1966 along with my Mom).

My Mom din't go back to UK between 1970-1983 .

You can check with the National Archives to see if they have any record of your mother registering in the UK.

But, broadly, if your mother was
(a) not registered in the UK (it is unlikely that she would be naturalised as she was likely already born a CUKC from her birth in Kenya), or
(b) either one of her parents were not registered in the UK at the time of her birth, or
(c) not lived in the UK for any five years before 1983,
she would not have acquired RoA under the Immigration Act 1971 and hence would not have become a British citizen in 1983.

Indeed, I may be being generously broad in my interpretation earlier and even if your mother had resided in the UK for five continuous years before 1983, she would have acquired RoA in a personal capacity and would not have been able to pass it on to you. See Page 4 of the Form UKM guidance which summarises the requirements for applying on Form UKM and this earlier thread that I had commented on.

If she did not have RoA at the time of your birth through her parent(s) or her own registration in the UK, you would not be eligible to apply on Form UKM.

Thank you for clearing this out ,I checked National Archive Record by name (nothing came up).
I will let her renew british passport and travel to family .
Thank you .

@secret.simon:

Would you be able to assist with any law firm to whom i can talk from states to process her passport as she doesn't have any help in India to apply for the same and process it on her own.
Thanks in advance.

Members are not permitted to post the names and details of law firms in the forum. You will need to find such firm you are comfortable with yourself. A lawyer is also not needed for a passport renewal.

Sure.Thank You Char.

Keep in mind that she will not get a British citizen passport, but a British Overseas Citizen passport, which does not give her the right to reside (the Right of Abode) in the UK. The visa requirements for British Overseas Citizens won't give her any significant advantage when traveling abroad either.

However, applying for a British passport (even a British Overseas Citizen passport) can cause her to lose her Indian citizenship (due to Indian law). So she may end up in a situation where she will not have the legal right to reside in any country. So she should think carefully before making any such application.

Apply for British passport from outside the UK

@Secret Simon:
Thank you for your valuable advice.I will keep in mind.

However ,i want to know if her parents as i already told above were registered in UK in 1975-76 and were british citizens and she shows the proof of their passports ,still she would get British Overseas Passport and cant become a british citizen.

@Secret Simon:

I went through this article .Do you think i should wait before applying for her.
https://www.squirepattonboggs.com/en/in ... -hong-kong

mslibraoctww wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:49 am

i want to know if her parents as i already told above were registered in UK in 1975-76 and were british citizens and she shows the proof of their passports ,still she would get British Overseas Passport

Yes. What matters is the status that her parents had at the time of her birth. British citizenship (and also CUKC and RoA) are determined by the status of the parents at the time of birth of the person or the person's own (not parents) subsequent registration/naturalisation.

Her parents were not registered or naturalised in the UK at the time of her birth and so she could not have acquired RoA from her parents.

The difference between a British Citizen and a British Overseas Citizen is precisely the lack of Right of Abode.

If, on 31st December 1982, your mother had CUKC and RoA, she became a British citizen the next day and you would be able to aply for British citizenship using Form UKM.

If, on 31st December 1982, your mother had only CUKC but did not have RoA, she became a British Overseas Citizen.

Unless you can find a registration certificate for your mother OR a registration certificate for her parents before her birth, she does not have RoA and therefore is only entitled to a British Overseas Citizen passport.

If you want confirmation of the Home Office interpretation of your mother's status without applying for a British passport, you can apply on Form NS with the same evidence as you would submit for her passport. The Home Office will issue you a letter stating the British nationality status they consider your mother as having. You can then apply for her passport if you so desire it.

mslibraoctww wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:57 am

I went through this article .Do you think i should wait before applying for her.
https://www.squirepattonboggs.com/en/in ... -hong-kong

No, she can't apply for that category of visas, as that is for British National Overseas, a completely different category of British nationality, which was granted on application (i.e. was not automatic) to people who lived in Hong Kong before 1997 (the handover of Hong Kong to China). If she has BNO status, she will have a certificate of the same because, as mentioned above, it would have to be applied for, in Hong Kong.

Unfortunately, HMPO will not accept a NS letter as evidence of nationality. So, I don’t really see any advantage in having such confirmation. May as well save the NS fees and directly apply for a less expensive British passport for confirmation.

@Secret .Simon:Thanks for detailed info.

@Vinny: Thanks for additional point.

vinny wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:18 am

Unfortunately, HMPO will not accept a NS letter as evidence of nationality. So, I don’t really see any advantage in having such confirmation. May as well save the NS fees and directly apply for a less expensive British passport for confirmation.

If the OP's mother applied for a British passport and the application was successful, it may trigger loss of her Indian citizenship. The logic of applying for a Form NS letter is that it allows the OP and their mother to test the evidence without imperilling the mother's existing Indian citizenship.

Thanks, @secret.simon. That’s a good point. Would applying for a CoE-RoA instead be more useful?

Overseas Citizen of India is an option that may be open if she successfully secure British passport.

vinny wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:42 pm

Thanks, @secret.simon. That’s a good point. Would applying for a CoE-RoA instead be more useful?

@vinny, that is a good idea, because this whole thread has been whether the mother has RoA or not (I think it is not disputed that she had CUKC in the past).

The only downside is that a CoE-RoA application only looks at whether the applicant had RoA or not, whereas I think (not sure) that a Form NS letter would rule more broadly on what form of British nationality the mother has.

Thanks secret.simon ,vinny and obie.

Can we apply NS and RoA together?

Probably sequential, if the same original documents are submitted to different places.

Original .....
I have her birth certification registration from Kenya,Nakuru

and

British Passport showing "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northens Ireland"

This is in INDIA with her .I have only copies.

vinny wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:05 pm

Probably sequential, if the same original documents are submitted to different places.

I'd suggest applying for Form NS first, because that will tell whether or not the mother can apply for CoE-RoA at all.

mslibraoctww wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:18 pm

Original .....
I have her birth certification registration from Kenya,Nakuru

and

British Passport showing "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northens Ireland"

This is in INDIA with her .I have only copies.

You'd want both that and the documentation proof of your grandparents registering in the UK, your mother's stay in the UK between 1967 and 1970, etc. You'd want to build up the case for her possibly having RoA (though, as I have advised earlier, I do not see any evidence of the same).

Without RoA, she can only apply for a BOC passport. You might as well as save on the cost of a Form NS (£250; the fees for a CoE-RoA are £372 and the fees for a British passport are ~£100 - £75.50 for the passport and £19.95 for submitting biometrics).

Here is a useful thread on another forum that has images of British passports issued to British nationals, including British citizens. The main (and mostly only) difference generally is the Category "Nationality" on the first page of the passport.

But that can impact the visa status of the individual. For instance, BOCs require visas to travel to both the UK and the US, while British citizens can apply for an ESTA to travel to the US.

Also see "Nationality Classes" on the right-hand side of the Wikipedia page on British Nationality Law.

As you are in the US and your mother is planning to travel there anyway, you can ask her to bring the original documents along with her.

@secret.simon

I checked the images .Her's was issued in 1970 and were handwritten then. But Yes, under Nationality field rubber stamp shows "British Subject: Citizen of United Kingdom and Colonies". I am sure if she would have renewed in 1980 , i would know what nationality status actually she had that time.

She can't travel to US without a passport ,so i am here looking for answers to start the process. I would definitely want to know firstly what type of nationality status she gonna have on her british passport to avoid any problems she might have after having british overseas passport.

mslibraoctww wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:52 pm

She can't travel to US without a passport

Does she not have any other passport (of any other country) at the moment?

mslibraoctww wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:52 pm

I would definitely want to know firstly what type of nationality status she gonna have on her british passport to avoid any problems she might have after having british overseas passport.

She would have had CUKC status till 1982, because British nationality classes only changed on 1st January 1983.

Yes, She dint make any as she never renounced british citizenship. She has a valid card to stay in India. But now we need her passport for travel reasons.