Page 1 of 3
Confusion in the guide (Declare FPN or PCN)
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:19 pm
by kgnot
1.I am feeling confused reading the guide. Do they mean people need to declare the parking notices including or only those which escalate to an FPN. I have no FPN that escalated to court only one some years ago regarding canceled insurance.
2.But I do have parking tickets and this is my other question - I do not have record of all so will Home Office be ok to tell them those who I recall and explain there might be more...
Re: Confusion in the guide (Declare FPN or PCN)
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:20 pm
by CULLINAN
Ignore the PCN’s if they are not numerous. FPN should ideally be declared especially if the points are still endorsed on your license.
Re: Confusion in the guide (Declare FPN or PCN)
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:30 pm
by kgnot
Thanks for the quick response. So is 3 PCN for this year numerous? And I have may be 1 or two last year.
Re: Confusion in the guide (Declare FPN or PCN)
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:35 pm
by CULLINAN
kgnot wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:30 pm
Thanks for the quick response. So is 3 PCN for this year numerous? And I have may be 1 or two last year.
Declare them all. They will not affect your application though, I believe.
Pages 18-23
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... idance.pdf
Re: Confusion in the guide (Declare FPN or PCN)
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:37 pm
by kgnot
Ok then but back to the second point. I do not have information of all only recall that there are some last year. And no way to recall anything beyond that - may be 1 or two per year. I hope this is good enough ? Either way this is all I can do unless you guys have other idea.
I am a delivery driver if you are wondering so I am thinking if this is too many to attach a statement explaining that I do a lot of stopping in high traffic congested areas in London where these fines occur.
Re: Confusion in the guide (Declare FPN or PCN)
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:39 pm
by CULLINAN
kgnot wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:37 pm
Ok then but back to the second point. I do not have information of all only recall that there are some. I hope this is good enough ? Either way this is all I can do unless you guys have other idea.
I am a delivery driver if you are wondering so I am thinking if this is too many to attach a statement explaining that I do a lot of stopping in high traffic congested areas in London where these fines occur.
Yes, you can mention this in the cover letter if you wish. Best to declare to best of your knowledge or mention in cover letter you do not remember the exact dates. PCN’s are okay. FPN’s are the ones that may cause more damage.
Re: Confusion in the guide (Declare FPN or PCN)
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:45 pm
by CULLINAN
TBH, you should not worry. PCN’s are fine. You only have 1 FPN. Ideally you should declare the FPN, PCN’s some declare, some dont. No issues.
Re: Confusion in the guide (Declare FPN or PCN)
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:50 pm
by kgnot
Thanks for the warm advice. I have only one FPN committed 2016 when my insurance got cancelled so there is that.
Anyway I am reading on page 26:
Criminality
You must give details of all criminal convictions both within and outside the UK.
These include road traffic offences.
Fixed penalty notices(they meant PCNs???) (such as speeding or parking tickets) must be disclosed,
although will not normally be taken into account unless:
....
• you received 3 or more fixed penalty notices at any level
And correct me if I am wrong but that states - FIXED penalty notices (FPN)...which is not Parking Charge Notices (PCN as it is written on the letters I received)..but then again do they confuse Parking Tickets with FPNs?
Re: Confusion in the guide (Declare FPN or PCN)
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:52 pm
by CULLINAN
PCN and FPN are different.
FPN alone is also NOT a criminal conviction unless you fail to pay the FPN and challenge it in court and eventually the case is upheld against you. Only if you get fined by court, FPN becomes a criminal conviction.
If I was you, I would not bother declaring PCNs but I can not comment on what you should do. You should follow the guidance and search for different member’s experience on the board.
Re: Confusion in the guide (Declare FPN or PCN)
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:54 pm
by kgnot
Right so they mean that if you get
3 or more FPN then they will consider it? But why do they put in brackets the parking tickets along with the Fixed Penalty Charges in the beginning?
Better not to think about it huh
Re: Confusion in the guide (Declare FPN or PCN)
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:56 pm
by CULLINAN
kgnot wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:54 pm
Right so they mean that if you get
3 or more FPN then they will consider it? But why do they put in brackets the parking tickets along with the Fixed Penalty Charges in the beginning?
Better not to think about it huh
Fixed penalty notices, penalty charge notices and penalty notices for disorder
Fixed penalty notices, penalty charge notices and penalty notices for disorder are imposed by the police or other authorised enforcement officers for traffic rule
violations, environmental and civil violations. It is a way of the criminal justice system disposing of fairly minor offences without the need for a person to attend court.
Receiving one does not form part of a person’s criminal record. A fixed penalty notice will not normally result in refusal unless the person has failed to pay or has unsuccessfully challenged the notice and there were subsequent criminal proceedings resulting in a conviction. In such instances, they should be treated in line with the sentence imposed by the court.
However, multiple fixed penalty notices over a short period of time could demonstrate a disregard for the law and therefore demonstrate that someone is not of good character.
Re: Confusion in the guide (Declare FPN or PCN)
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:00 pm
by CULLINAN
Criminality
You must give details of all criminal convictions both within and outside the UK.
These include road traffic offences.
Fixed penalty notices(they meant PCNs???) (such as speeding or parking tickets) must be disclosed,
although will not normally be taken into account unless:
....
• you received 3 or more fixed penalty notices at any level
FPN alone is not a criminal conviction.
FPN alone is also NOT a criminal conviction unless you fail to pay the FPN and challenge it in court and eventually the case is upheld against you. Only if you get fined by court, FPN becomes a criminal conviction.
Re: Confusion in the guide (Declare FPN or PCN)
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:00 pm
by kgnot
However, multiple fixed penalty notices over a short period of time could demonstrate a disregard for the law and therefore demonstrate that someone is not of good character.
So does this include multiple Parking/Penalty Charge notices?
Re: Confusion in the guide (Declare FPN or PCN)
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:02 pm
by CULLINAN
kgnot wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:00 pm
However, multiple fixed penalty notices over a short period of time could demonstrate a disregard for the law and therefore demonstrate that someone is not of good character.
So does this include multiple Parking/Penalty Charge notices?
PCN and FPN are different. PCN is issued to the vehicle and FPN is issued to the driver. FPN can lead to criminal proceedings but PCN can not. PCN ends up with civil debt only if chased when not paid.
Re: Confusion in the guide (Declare FPN or PCN)
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:21 pm
by kgnot
Thanks for the reply man that is certainly something to sleep over.
Re: Confusion in the guide (Declare FPN or PCN)
Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:46 pm
by kgnot
I called the Home Office for clarification and the woman do not know difference between FPN and a PCN and she does not understand page 26. She advice me to ask an immigration solicitor (who spend 5 years bla bla bla great people second only to Jesus). I asked a level 3 immigration solicitor and she thinks parking tickets are FPN...Another immigration solicitor had no comment despite i offered to pay him for one hour....Tragic
Re: Confusion in the guide (Declare FPN or PCN)
Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:48 pm
by CULLINAN
kgnot wrote: ↑Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:46 pm
I called the Home Office for clarification and the woman do not know difference between FPN and a PCN and she does not understand page 26. She advice me to ask an immigration solicitor (who spend 5 years bla bla bla great people second only to Jesus). I asked a level 3 immigration solicitor and she thinks parking tickets are FPN...Another immigration solicitor had no comment despite i offered to pay him for one hour....Tragic
You are overthinking and wasting your money. You could have simply googled if you want to know the difference.
Re: Confusion in the guide (Declare FPN or PCN)
Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:58 pm
by kgnot
No you do not get it. I KNOW there is a difference. I do believe that..Home Office do not know
as well as all solicitors. Like this 1 in 10 statistical error the government do while explaining the COVID 19 spike
Re: Confusion in the guide (Declare FPN or PCN)
Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:53 pm
by CR001
kgnot wrote: ↑Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:58 pm
No you do not get it. I KNOW there is a difference. I do believe that..Home Office do not know
as well as all solicitors. Like this 1 in 10 statistical error the government do while explaining the COVID 19 spike
The call centre you are calling is not HO staff. It is a third party agency, often giving out incorrect information.
Re: Confusion in the guide (Declare FPN or PCN)
Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:20 pm
by kgnot
Well this is facing great good job on the behalf of whoever put them there because it is their job to answer such question.
And I understand why I saw in linked an immigration lawyer complaining about having to write multiple question letters to the Home Office for clarification.
Confirmation regarding No belt course
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:46 pm
by kgnot
Hi I was told by a solicitor that if I have not received a Fixed Penalty Charge driving without a seatbelt but instead a course I should not declare it? It was my first time and I was delivering so I even think the police were in a bit of error but I did the course and buckle up as frequently as I can.
Re: Confirmation regarding No belt course
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:55 pm
by CULLINAN
Best to declare. Usually you are selected for awareness course after a FPN is issued.
Re: Confirmation regarding No belt course
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:33 pm
by kgnot
I was given a choice letter where I accept an awareness course, I pay a FPN or I challenge it at court. I chose the first option.
Re: Confirmation regarding No belt course
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:44 pm
by CULLINAN
kgnot wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:33 pm
I was given a choice letter where I accept an awareness course, I pay a FPN or I challenge it at court. I chose the first option.
Yes so FPN was issued. Declare it.
Re: Confirmation regarding No belt course
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:51 pm
by kgnot
Ok I can insisit to declare it but I am 99 percent sure you do nto quiet understand.
Let me quote the letter:
....
Option 1: I want to complete an educational course as part of the Your Belt Your Life scheme
We are giving you an opportunity to take part in an online course....The course is an ALTERNATIVE to the Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty in Option 2.
Go Online to book your course at.....
Option 2. .... FPN 100 pounds ...
Option 3 ...Magistrate's Court