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Posted: **Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:26 am**

Hi all,
I am dual EU citizen (Romanian/Hungarian) ,I had gained ILR under Romanian citizenship in 2006 before my country joined EU.I intend to apply for British citizenship hopefully before the end of the year using the Romanian citizenship and passport , I have passed Life in UK and the English B1test .Just discovered(with horror..) that my RO-EU passport expires next Feb(2021),is there a minimum amount of time that the passport has to be valid before I can submit an application ?Is very likely that it will expire by the time the case is considered, is this a problem? I am an dual EU citizen so I have another passport (HU) that I can use as my ID and document to travel .Thank you for your help.

Posted: **Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:44 am**

Hi sorry this might be silly questions for some but I need some clarity.(in addition to my previous post).

I am in the process of applying for naturalisation and British passport.
Dual EU citizen/ILR obtained in 2006 -sticker in passport ,no biometric id

I have done the following and have some questions :
1.passed life in UK
2. passed English B1 test
3.I had looked at the AN form December2020 version-as I will apply in the first week of Jan 2021 -is this the same as the online application?
4. at point 1.45 (employment for last 10 years -was 2Y self employed and director last 8Y)-which boxes to tick (both? Self employed and director?)and what evidence to submit at Section 10
?(P60 for last 8 and and first 2payslips?/self assessment or just evidence of paying national insurance contribution?)
SECTION 10: Evidence of National Insurance contributions covering the relevant period:
• payslips
• P60’s
5. at section 5 -I have this -• the Home Office letter by which you were given permission to remain permanently in the UK-am I correct in assuming that section 3 (especially) and 4 doesn't apply to me?

Finally what is the order please ,do I apply first submit my application online , pay the fee or do I need to register with ukvas have the appointment then submit online my application ?
Also as applying for the actual passport ,via a a joint citizenship and passport service (JCAP),do I need a visit to post office and do as per this instructions?https://richmond.gov.uk/media/15490/jca ... idance.pdf

Thank you .

Posted: **Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:18 am**

Please keep all questions in one thread - makes it easier to review and provide feedback.

JCAP is no longer available - you can only apply for a passport once you are British, after the ceremony.

Posted: **Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:20 am**

Please keep all questions in one thread - makes it easier to review and provide feedback.

JCAP is no longer available - you can only apply for a passport once you are British, after the ceremony.

Posted: **Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:22 am**

Also, are you looking at the paper form? You must apply online and not use the paper form.

Posted: **Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:35 am**

RB55 wrote: ↑
Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:44 am
Hi sorry this might be silly questions for some but I need some clarity.(in addition to my previous post).

I am in the process of applying for naturalisation and British passport.
Dual EU citizen/ILR obtained in 2006 -sticker in passport ,no biometric id biometric id card not required

I have done the following and have some questions :
1.passed life in UK
2. passed English B1 test
3.I had looked at the AN form December2020 version-as I will apply in the first week of Jan 2021 -is this the same as the online application? same though wordings/choices may be slightly different.
4. at point 1.45 (employment for last 10 years -was 2Y self employed and director last 8Y)-which boxes to tick (both? Self employed and director?)and what evidence to submit at Section 10 Employee and director
?(P60 for last 8 and and first 2payslips?/self assessment or just evidence of paying national insurance contribution?) P60s ok but just needed for the last five years (not 10) and latest self-assessment statement
SECTION 10: Evidence of National Insurance contributions covering the relevant period:
• payslips not required
• P60’s yes - as above
5. at section 5 -I have this -• the Home Office letter by which you were given permission to remain permanently in the UK-am I correct in assuming that section 3 (especially) and 4 doesn't apply to me? Which section headings are you referring to? "Good Character Requirement" - applicable to everyone and "Crown Service" no

Finally what is the order please ,do I apply first submit my application online , pay the fee or do I need to register with ukvas have the appointment then submit online my application ? Submit/pay/register for ukvcas/book appointment/upload documents
Also as applying for the actual passport ,via a a joint citizenship and passport service (JCAP),do I need a visit to post office and do as per this instructions?https://richmond.gov.uk/media/15490/jca ... idance.pdf no longer available

Thank you .

Posted: **Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:45 am**

5. at section 5 -I have this -• the Home Office letter by which you were given permission to remain permanently in the UK-am I correct in assuming that section 3 (especially) and 4 doesn't apply to me? Which section headings are you referring to? "Good Character Requirement" - applicable to everyone and "Crown Service" no

To clarify 3 & 4 do apply:
SECTION 3: Evidence of lawful residence during the 5 (or, if the applicant is married or in
civil partnership to a British citizen, 3) years before the date of the application These are your P60s for the last five years
SECTION 4: Evidence of permanent residence for applicants from Switzerland or the European
Economic Area This is your sticker in the passport and your ILR letter

Posted: **Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:50 pm**

Thank you for your replies @alterhase58 and @CR001. As you probably noticed I have downloaded the AN form initially to have an idea about what is need it and how an application looks like. I also didn't realised that the online option allows for pause and revisits before submitting. I have noted your replies , I will have some questions and I really appreciate your help .
Quick recap
ILR obtained in 2006 (sticker in passport -still in my possession-not valid anymore)-Romanian -I am using this to apply for naturalisation.ro pass to expire 24.02.2021,I also have a ro ID card valid till 2029.
obtained Hungarian citizenship + passport 2014
business owner(director) last 8 years (have all the P60's)/self employed before (I do have last 2 self assessments)

I read BC allows for multiple citizenships ,means that the second one (HU) MUST be declared?
Thank you.

Posted: **Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:11 pm**

RB55 wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:50 pm
Thank you for your replies @alterhase58 and @CR001. As you probably noticed I have downloaded the AN form initially to have an idea about what is need it and how an application looks like. I also didn't realised that the online option allows for pause and revisits before submitting. I have noted your replies , I will have some questions and I really appreciate your help .
Quick recap
ILR obtained in 2006 (sticker in passport -still in my possession-not valid anymore)-Romanian -I am using this to apply for naturalisation.ro pass to expire 24.02.2021,I also have a ro ID card valid till 2029. National ID card not required.
obtained Hungarian citizenship + passport 2014
business owner(director) last 8 years (have all the P60's)/self employed before (I do have last 2 self assessments) Only required for the past five years residency period.

I read BC allows for multiple citizenships ,means that the second one (HU) MUST be declared? If the form asks for this then you are required to answer, unless it's marked optional.
Thank you.

Posted: **Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:50 pm**

RB55 wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:50 pm
ILR obtained in 2006 (sticker in passport -still in my possession-not valid anymore)

alterhase58 wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:11 pm
business owner(director) last 8 years (have all the P60's)/self employed before (I do have last 2 self assessments) Only required for the past five years residency period.

In this case, as the OP is relying on their 2006 ILR, I believe that they will need to demonstrate residence in the UK for all 14 years subsequent to the grant of ILR. Or to be more accurate, they will need to demonstrate that they did not lose their ILR by any absence from the UK of more than two years.

RB55 wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:50 pm
I read BC allows for multiple citizenships ,means that the second one (HU) MUST be declared?

I believe that all multiple citizenships need to be declared. Later on, all uncancelled passports (including expired passports) of all nationalities held by the applicant will need to be submitted as a part of the British passport application anyway.

Posted: **Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:13 pm**

Thank you for your replies .

1.
regarding employment ,in the online form it doesn't seems to be a way to allow for being self employed at the previous employment section .First part (the last 8 years can be filed in easily but the next page that would cover my first 2 years( out of the 10) as a self employed person is asking for employment details e.g starting/finishing dates/employer name etc..any suggestions please?

2.
In this case, as the OP is relying on their 2006 ILR, I believe that they will need to demonstrate residence in the UK for all 14 years subsequent to the grant of ILR. Or to be more accurate, they will need to demonstrate that they did not lose their ILR by any absence from the UK of more than two years.

RB55 wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:50 pm
---is this a certitude and is there any reference somewhere about it ? Apart from tax returns what could be proof being compliant (I haven't breached this rule ,basically lived here ever since)

3.
I read BC allows for multiple citizenships ,means that the second one (HU) MUST be declared?

I believe that all multiple citizenships need to be declared. Later on, all uncancelled passports (including expired passports) of all nationalities held by the applicant will need to be submitted as a part of the British passport application anyway.
[/quote]------noted filled in relevant section

Posted: **Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:51 pm**

secret.simon wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:50 pm

RB55 wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:50 pm
ILR obtained in 2006 (sticker in passport -still in my possession-not valid anymore)

alterhase58 wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:11 pm
business owner(director) last 8 years (have all the P60's)/self employed before (I do have last 2 self assessments) Only required for the past five years residency period.
In this case, as the OP is relying on their 2006 ILR, I believe that they will need to demonstrate residence in the UK for all 14 years subsequent to the grant of ILR. Or to be more accurate, they will need to demonstrate that they did not lose their ILR by any absence from the UK of more than two years.

RB55 wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:50 pm
---is this a certitude and is there any reference somewhere about it ? Apart from tax returns what could be proof being compliant (I haven't breached this rule ,basically lived here ever since)

No it is not a certainty and I could not find it in the naturalisation guidance, it is an educated guess.

ILR lapses automatically after an absence of two continuous years from the UK. And the requirement for British citizenship is that you must have held ILR status for a period of one year preceding the date of application. As ILR lapses automatically after an absence of two continuous years, and your ILR is dated 2006, I think the caseworker would want to know that there has not been an absence of more than two years at any point in the past after you acquired ILR.

There are relatively very few people on these forums who have applied for British citizenship after more than five years of having acquired ILR/PR/Settled Status. So it would be hard to find similar cases, at least on these forums.

And your situation is complicated by the fact that as an EEA citizen, you can't rely on passport stamps to prove that you have resided in the UK for that period of time without any absence of more than two years.

As for proof, submit the same proof that you would use to prove residence for the five years preceding the date of application, but expanded to fourteen years. And explain the situation in a cover letter.

Posted: **Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:13 pm**

Thank you for your reply, indeed I was not absent or had any gaps in living here ,have all self assessments to prove that and also the travel history I can trace back if need be .
Still not sure how to fill in the Other employment-that would cover my self employment period ,(first 2 years in the last 10) page thought ,as this doesn't cater for self employment (unlike the first one in the online form).

Posted: **Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:13 pm**

Thank you for your reply, indeed I was not absent or had any gaps in living here ,have all self assessments to prove that and also the travel history I can trace back if need be .
Still not sure how to fill in the Other employment-that would cover my self employment period ,(first 2 years in the last 10) page thought ,as this doesn't cater for self employment (unlike the first one in the online form).

Posted: **Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:12 pm**

Hi again, could you please clarify for me this issue:

As I am in possession of an ILR since 2006 ,at section
EEA national
I fall under the category :
Are you either:
An EEA national who has been issued with a permanent residence document-in my case the ILR and I ticked the box ILR Indefinite leave to remain (ILR), including ILR granted under the EU Settlement Scheme
At the end of the document is telling me that -
You must include your:
passport or EEA national identity card
UK permanent residence card
evidence of freedom from immigration time restrictions
You must have a permanent residence card before you can apply for citizenship Apply for a permanent residence card.

It was my understanding that if I am possession of ILR I do not need an permanent residence card. I have the sticker in my passport. Am i missing something?

Posted: **Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:11 pm**

What are the options if you say "no" ?
If you already have a permanent status then you don't need a PR card (and you can't apply for one now!) - many applicants with settled status never had a PR card and they are being accepted. Your passport sticker stating "indefinite leave" or similar is the proof.

Posted: **Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:10 pm**

I m not sure as I didn't say no ,nevertheless ,after reading and re reading all the docs I can only assume that the system is picking up this situation "If you already have a permanent residence document, it will not be valid after 30 June 2021" considering my sticker of ILR as a permanent residence document?!-" ---which would be odd as my ILR should be for life but really don't fancy to leave it to the interpretation of a case officer..

https://www.gov.uk/permanent-residence-document-eu-eea

Given all this I will most likely apply first for settled status then for citizenship via that route.

https://www.gov.uk/british-citizenship# ... e%20status.

and using this "If you had permanent residence status before you got settled status
From 1 January 2021, if you had permanent residence status before you got settled status, you can count that time towards the 12 month qualifying period." rather than waiting the whole 12 months.

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