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CoE RoA issued in error
Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:01 pm
by Sha101
Hi
Moderators
What happens when HO refuses CoE renewal, and states CoE RoA appear to have been issued in error. while that person had entitlement for registration under section 3(2). Now lost time and age.
How likely HO would construe the original application?
Is it Discretionary process or Binding?
Would
Harding v SSHD Judgment Help?
Your opinion please
Thank you.
Re: CoE RoA issued in error
Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:24 pm
by vinny
Sha101 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:01 pm
Would
Harding v SSHD Judgment Help?
Probably worth trying..
Re: CoE RoA issued in error
Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:32 pm
by Sha101
vinny wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:24 pm
Sha101 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:01 pm
Would
Harding v SSHD Judgment Help?
Thank you Vinnie for your reply.
"Probably worth trying"
Caseworker might consider as spot duff and reject it.
If that happens how likely that would succeed at JR.
Is there any other caselaw or similar to support the Harding Judgment.
Probably worth trying..
Re: CoE RoA issued in error
Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:55 pm
by Sha101
But I wonder would HO willing to go to JR proceedings they literally disqualified the person from the statuary entitlement of section 3(2) and 3(5) by grouse error
Re: CoE RoA issued in error
Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 7:06 pm
by secret.simon
Re: CoE RoA issued in error
Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 7:33 pm
by Sha101
Re: CoE RoA issued in error
Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:35 pm
by secret.simon
Sha101 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:01 pm
that person had entitlement for registration under section 3(2)
Did you have an entitlement to register before your 18th birthday? That would have required
your British citizen by descent father to have
resided in the UK for
three continuous years before your birth. Were the last three conditions met?
Sha101 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:01 pm
What happens when HO refuses CoE renewal
Do you already have a CoE-RoA? There is a difference between renewal and first application and the case you cited may not apply to first applications.
Sha101 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:55 pm
they literally disqualified the person from the statuary entitlement of section 3(2) and 3(5) by grouse error
Not that in your case, based on the information in the previous thread and this thread, the Home office has not made an error, let alone a gross error. They have applied the law laid down in statute, that restricts British citizenship from automatic descent beyond the first generation born abroad. British law lays the burden for acquisition of British citizenship for people in your position (children born abroad to a British citizen by descent parent) on the parents, and also imposes a time limit (the 18th birthday). But that is the law, not an error of the Home Office.
Of course, you could clarify why you think the Home Office has made a mistake. Were
you (not your parents or grandparents) ever issued a document in error by a British authority (the Home Office or a British High Commission) that caused you to believe that you were a British citizen or had RoA?
Re: CoE RoA issued in error
Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:33 pm
by Sha101
secret.simon wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:35 pm
Sha101 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:01 pm
that person had entitlement for registration under section 3(2)
Did you have an entitlement to register before your 18th birthday? That would have required
your British citizen by descent father to have
resided in the UK for
three continuous years before your birth. Were the last three conditions met?
Sha101 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:01 pm
What happens when HO refuses CoE renewal
Do you already have a CoE-RoA? There is a difference between renewal and first application and the case you cited may not apply to first applications.
Sha101 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:55 pm
they literally disqualified the person from the statuary entitlement of section 3(2) and 3(5) by grouse error
Not that in your case, based on the information in the previous thread and this thread, the Home office has not made an error, let alone a gross error. They have applied the law laid down in statute, that restricts British citizenship from automatic descent beyond the first generation born abroad. British law lays the burden for acquisition of British citizenship for people in your position (children born abroad to a British citizen by descent parent) on the parents, and also imposes a time limit (the 18th birthday). But that is the law, not an error of the Home Office.
Of course, you could clarify why you think the Home Office has made a mistake. Were
you (not your parents or grandparents) ever issued a document in error by a British authority (the Home Office or a British High Commission) that caused you to believe that you were a British citizen or had RoA?
I appreciate Secret Simon for your reply.
Going back to my previous thread, I've realised I didn't clarify my position properly.
yes I do meet the first paragraph you wrote.
I was issued with CoE by B.H.C in 1997.
Endorsed on my mother's foreign passport. Her passport expired in 2000.
Re: CoE RoA issued in error
Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:02 am
by secret.simon
Sha101 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:33 pm
I was issued with CoE by B.H.C in 1997.
Endorsed on my mother's foreign passport. Her passport expired in 2000.
Were you named on the RoA endorsed on your mother's foreign passport?
It is quite likely that the RoA was endorsed (quite likely in error) for your mother herself, as she would meet the requirements of the
old Section 2(2) of the Immigration Act 1971, as a female Commonwealth citizen married to a British citizen.
Re: CoE RoA issued in error
Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 12:20 pm
by Sha101
secret.simon wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:02 am
Sha101 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:33 pm
I was issued with CoE by B.H.C in 1997.
Endorsed on my mother's foreign passport. Her passport expired in 2000.
Were you named on the RoA endorsed on your mother's foreign passport?
It is quite likely that the RoA was endorsed (quite likely in error) for your mother herself, as she would meet the requirements of the
old Section 2(2) of the Immigration Act 1971, as a female Commonwealth citizen married to a British citizen.
There were two separate vignette affixed in my mothers passport.
She had entry certificate vignette endorsed in her name for entry clearance on the basis of spousal visa.
While I had separate CoE RoA vignette on the same passport and my details was endorsed in it.
I didn't have separate passport I was a minor at the time, so they endorsed it in her passport.
Re: CoE RoA issued in error
Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 12:24 pm
by secret.simon
I think I have managed to track down the policy document referred to in the judgment, in case anybody wants to give it a read.
Administrative Recognition
Volume I, Section 6 of the Nationality Instructions (pre 2017)
Note that the document does suggest that even the issue of a British passport (which will likely be easier as that is under the Royal Prerogative, rather than a CoE-RoA, as that will require the conditions of the Immigration Acts to be met) (a) does not make you a British citizen (so you can't then rely on that to pass on British citizenship to your children, for example). It explicitly states that in order to become a British citizen, you'd need to naturalise in your own right, which is not possible for a person who is already a British citizen and (b) is short-term, until you regularise your situation.
Even assuming that a former CoE-RoA was issued to you and that is treated as an undetermined application under Section 3(2), keep in mind that (a) you do not become a British citizen until your registration certificate is issued (i.e. it is not retrospective), (b) you become a British citizen by descent yourself after the registration, and (c) any children born to you outside the UK will not be able to register as British citizens under Section 3(2) either, as that section requires the British citizen grandparent (your father in this case) to be a British citizen otherwise than by descent, which he is not.
Any children born to you in the UK after you are either naturalised or registered as a British citizen (but not if you are merely living in the UK on a British passport issued to you under the AR policy, because even with the British passport, you are not a British citizen) would be a British citizen.
There are many twists and turns this journey can take yet.
PS: Your post came up as I was submitting my post above. You *may* have grounds for requesting a CoE-RoA or a British passport based on that judgement and on
legitimate expectations, but keep in mind that the Home Office
Nationality Instructions have now been replaced by
Nationality Guidance, which is much more restrictive. You will almost certainly need a good lawyer (and keep in mind that we do not recommend lawyers or other professionals on these forums). Best of luck.
Re: CoE RoA issued in error
Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 8:36 pm
by Sha101
Thank you Secret Simon.
I would certainly seek the services of a Lawyer regard to this matter.
If i have anything new I'll keep you posted If you don't mind.
Take care we need people like you.
Re: CoE RoA issued in error
Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:22 pm
by secret.simon
Sha101 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 8:36 pm
If i have anything new I'll keep you posted If you don't mind.
Please do post any further developments into this thread. That way, its development over a period of time can be seen.
Sha101 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 8:36 pm
I would certainly seek the services of a Lawyer regard to this matter.
Do show this thread and your earlier thread to the lawyer and ask them for feedback on the points discussed. After all, even if I am wrong (and I can be, as I am not a lawyer), I and others on these forums would benefit from any corrections.
Sha101 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 8:36 pm
Thank you Secret Simon
...
Take care we need people like you.
Deeply flattered. Thank you.