Immigrationboards.com

WilsoninUk wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 01, 2024 11:47 am

Hello,

I am applying for my sons citizenship through 3(2), as I am a citizen by descent. I lived here (in the UK) for 5 years in boarding school (from age 8-13) but the school no longer exists. The times spent here since then (and before his birth) wasn’t long enough to be 3 consecutive years. My parents also only lived here for about a year of that time during the time I was in school. My passports have stamps, but I was told that wasn’t enough proof.

I have bits and pieces of school awards and such, letters sent to me at school etc… What else can I get or find or use to prove I lived here? Is there some place where school records are kept for schools that have closed down? I assume I would have been on council tax records, but don’t know if I can access those. I have had my NI number since I was at least 8, but don’t know if there are records for that? We had private medical care through the school as they had their own matrons. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

WilsoninUk wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 12, 2025 6:49 pm

Awkward one.

Parent with sole responsibility is British by descent. Child and parent have lived in the UK for 7.5 years. Child does not have current visa / legal status - has overstayed visa through no fault of their or my own.

British Parent lived here for 5 years as a child, but currently unable to piece together concrete proof for 3(2) because parents are deceased and school no longer operating. (Still working on it though).

Child's father (non-uk/non-EU) is uninvolved and uncontactable for permission for 3(5).

Questions:
1. Can child be (potentially) registered under 3(1) if they do not have legal status or ILR - and sufficient proof that father is uncontactable?

2. If I did manage to get permission for 3(5) from father, or proof for 3(2), is it too late to register if child has been here without a valid visa or ILR?

3. Or do we need to go back to the begining of the process and get a Visa based on private life (7 year child), for the 5 years to get ILR, and then apply for citizenship when allowable?

The caseworker guidence says:

"We would normally expect the child to be lawfully in the UK. To grant citizenship to a
child who is here unlawfully could potentially undermine the immigration system, as it
could be viewed as rewarding or incentivising non-compliance. However, we
recognise that there may be cases where the unlawfulness was beyond the child’s
control. If the child is not here lawfully you must consider whether there are exceptional
reasons to grant, in which the reasons put forward for granting citizenship outweigh
the need to promote compliance with the immigration law." This refers to children who have lived in the UK for 10 years under Section 3(1).

I have explainable reasons as to why the registration is late, and why child currently has no legal status. But either way, the end game is for child to be a citizen because we are unable to return to our original home country. But we'll take any route for legal status at this point. If I can do 3(1), I intend to show every bit of proof I have that I lived here as a kid, and also proof that his dad intended him to be registered (emails, texts) before he went MIA. All addresses I lived at as a kid, my school name and whatever else I can find. But it would be a waste of money if there is a hard rule about having legal status for ALL the years child has lived here.

Parental consent for applications under 3(5)
Parental consent is a statutory requirement for registration under section 3(5). There is no discretion to waive this requirement. This means that you cannot register a child under section 3(5) unless both parents or one parent in the examples given in the evidence required section, have given their consent to the child’s registration, even if all other requirements are met. There is no exception to this rule.

The consent of the parents has to be given in writing and be signed. This requirement is met if the consent section of the form is completed by the parent or parents.

You must request consent where only one parent has given consent, and the consent of both parents is required.

If the appropriate consent cannot be obtained, you must consider an alternative route for citizenship.

The law in relation to section 3(2)
Children are entitled to registration as British citizens under section 3(2) of the British Nationality Act 1981 if:

they are born outside the UK
either parent (the parent in question) was a British citizen by descent at the time of the child’s birth
the mother or father of the parent in question (the child’s grandparent) became or but for their death would have become, a British citizen otherwise than by descent either:

on 1 January 1983
at the time of the parent’s birth
The child’s parent must meet the residence requirements listed below, unless the child was born stateless.

The parent in question must:

have lived in the UK for a continuous period of 3 years at any time before the child’s birth
have been in the UK at the beginning of that 3 year period
not have been absent from the UK for more than 270 days in that 3 year period
If the child was born on or after 21 May 2002 the parent in question can also meet the above residence requirements through residence in a qualifying overseas territory.

The child must also be of good character if over the age of 10.

Documentary evidence required under section 3(2)
Applications under section 3(2) must be supported by the following evidence:

child’s birth certificate showing parents’ details
the relevant documentation to establish that the parent in question was a British citizen by descent at the time of the child’s birth
the relevant documentation to establish that the grandparent:
was a British citizen otherwise than by descent at the time of the child’s parent’s birth
became or would but for their death have become such a citizen on 1 January 1983
parents’ marriage certificate if the claim is through the father
if the child was not born stateless, passports or other documents to establish that the parent in question:
lived in the UK or qualifying territories for 3 years prior to the child’s birth
was not absent from the UK or qualifying territories for more than 270 days in that 3 year period
if the child was born stateless:
a letter from the authorities of the country of the child’s birth confirming the child did not acquire that country’s citizenship or nationality at birth
if the other parent is neither a British citizen or a national of the country of the child’s birth a letter from the authorities of the country of which the parent is a citizen confirming the child did not acquire that country’s citizenship or nationality at birth
Parental consent for applications under 3(2)
As the child has an entitlement to be registered as a British citizen there is no legal requirement for the parent to consent to the application. However, you must note any information provided about consent.

contorted_svy wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 13, 2025 8:59 am

Let me ask again - who said that your stamped passports would not be suitable evidence? Did you apply and your application was rejected?

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 13, 2025 2:39 pm

Are you and the other parent either legally divorced or legally separated?

contorted_svy wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 13, 2025 10:09 am

As you have experienced yourself, it is the case that solicitors provide the wrong advice. If you have passports with stamps and the rest of the evidence and go for 3(2). Should that fail you need to get visas/ILR for your child. it is up to you if you want to invest your money in this possibility to get your child citizenship, knowing you may be rejected.

contorted_svy wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 13, 2025 5:30 pm

The list of evidence is in my post above - really the passport proving 3 years of your life here should be enough. Interesting you have one as you are British by descent - out of curiosity how did you get your passport stamped? Is it a British passport?

contorted_svy wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 14, 2025 9:23 am

Regarding past evidence. If you contact HMRC at their helpline they may be able to help. Try contacting the council, your former surgery, your local hospital - if they tell you they no longer have records because it's been too long, still keep those emails and submit them. Keep written proof that there is no evidence if that makes sense. Try the same for your old school, maybe it became part of a local school trust or something.

contorted_svy wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 13, 2025 10:27 pm

That's interesting, thank you for answering. This choice of keeping a foreign passport with a ROA may be your saving grace.

CR001 wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 14, 2025 11:09 am

If she has no visa due to it having expired, then yes, she is an overstayer and has no legal status. Having a path to register as British doesn't change that at all.

When did the visa expire?

How old is she?

You do realise that she has not entitlement for free NHS either and you will likely be billed at 150% cost.

WilsoninUk wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 14, 2025 10:47 am

contorted_svy wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 14, 2025 9:23 am

Regarding past evidence. If you contact HMRC at their helpline they may be able to help. Try contacting the council, your former surgery, your local hospital - if they tell you they no longer have records because it's been too long, still keep those emails and submit them. Keep written proof that there is no evidence if that makes sense. Try the same for your old school, maybe it became part of a local school trust or something.

Thank you so much for that advice. I really appreciate everyones input. I pulled out my old passports and saw what the issue is.There is no stamp for the day I arrived in the UK at the begining of the 5 year period. There is a stamp 3 years later - randomly - for when I went out of the country and came back in. But there are no further stamps other than 2 years later when I went back to birth country and they stamped my entry. This was the early 90's, they don't stamp in birth country anymore. So....based on the stamps it looks like I was in the Uk for 2 years rather than 5. So the advice was right, I can't use the passport. However we should have done a Indefinite Leave to Enter before we came. We wouldn't be in the position we are now if we had. I am going to try to find other proof. But I'm also considering applying legal pressure to father. It's possible he'll respond to a solicitor since he refuses to respond to me. 3(5) is always going to be the best option because it gives my child citizenship with out the "by descent".

contorted_svy wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 14, 2025 2:27 pm

If my understanding is correct, not having a visa should not be an issue for routes 3(2) and 3(5). Her being an overstayer should not matter for these routes as she has an entitlement to citizenship. But you can ask the people you booked consultations with to confirm this point.

I will make another suggestion here - not sure if it would work. If you have sole responsibility (ie the father is her bio father but has no legal rights to being a parent whatsoever) and you married a British citizen - would it be feasible for your now husband to adopt her, and would this make him able to give consent for naturalising your daughter under 3(5)? This may or may not work and you may need to live here with your daughter and now husband for 3 more years from the moment he becomes legally her father before she is eligible, but maybe is something to try when you speak to the solicitor if you are willing to give it a shot.