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UK born child - ILR first then MN1?

Only for queries regarding Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR). Please use the EU Settlement Scheme forum for queries about settled status under Appendix EU

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mccheb
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UK born child - ILR first then MN1?

Post by mccheb » Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:42 am

Dear members,

My wife and I are about to apply for ILR in August 2022 (as we are getting close to finishing 5 years on Tier 2 / Tier 2 dependant visas). We have a UK-born child (currently 3 years old), and all our visas will expire in September 2022.

I am aware that my UK-born child can register for citizenship using MN1 directly, once the parents get ILR (although in our case my child's dependant visa might expire first, and I will probably need insurance to cover the healthcare costs).

However, as another option, if my employer is willing to cover the costs, can I also include my child along with my ILR application (so the application will be for the main applicant - myself - and two dependants: my wife and my child)? The child is only 3 years old so definitely have not yet lived in the UK for 5 years - is this okay? The upside is that the child will be covered by section 3C before the visa expires in September 2022, so extra peace of mind.

Many thanks for your help in advance!

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Re: UK born child - ILR first then MN1?

Post by CR001 » Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:48 am

Yes you can apply for the child but it is an unnecessary cost in my opinion if you intend to register the child as British.
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Re: UK born child - ILR first then MN1?

Post by mccheb » Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:52 am

I will speak again with my employer and consider whether this is a good option. Many thanks for your help!

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Re: UK born child - ILR first then MN1?

Post by mccheb » Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:37 am

Some follow-up questions (my apologies, if these are deemed no longer relevant to ILR):

My wife and I are about to apply for ILR in August 2022 (as we are getting close to finishing 5 years on Tier 2 / Tier 2 dependant visas). We have a UK-born child (currently 3 years old), and all our visas will expire in September 2022.

I am aware that my UK-born child can register for citizenship using MN1 directly once the parents get ILR, but the whole process (ILR for parents + MN1 registration for child) may take more than 3 months - well after my child's current Tier 2 dependant visa expires. I would, however, like to avoid making my child an overstayer if at all possible. My employer is willing to cover the cost of an additional Tier 2 dependant for my son, so I am wondering if I can do the following steps (the main idea is to "abuse" section 3C to cover the gaps for the child):

1. parents apply for ILR
2. whilst waiting for ILR decision, apply for Tier 2 dependant visa for the child
3. once parents' ILR granted, do MN1 registration for the child
4. If MN1 approved before dependant visa approval, withdraw the dependant visa application

My questions:

Q1. In (2), can the child apply for Tier 2 dependant visa when parents are *waiting* for ILR? (it's not hard to find similar scenarios on the forum, but I couldn't find a clear answer)

Q2. In (2), if ILR is granted quickly for parents - say I pay for priority service, can I do MN1 for the child, and then a Tier 2 dependant visa application? (I feel like this will need a cover letter, but I don't think it's a good idea to say that the only purpose for the dependant visa application is to trigger section 3C..)

Q3. In (2), know that I can pause the dependant visa application by withholding biometrics for 45 days - and section 3C already kicks in even before biometrics are enrolled - is this correct?

Q4. In (4), when MN1 is approved, will the dependant visa application automatically be rejected (refused?)?

Q5. In (4), section 3C is in effect *until* we withdraw the dependant visa application - is this correct?

Q6. I don't suppose one can "vary" an ILR application or dependant visa application into an MN1 registration?

Many thanks for your help in advance!

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Re: UK born child - ILR first then MN1?

Post by zimba » Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:22 am

Q1. Yes, but why a dependant visa though? A child can be included in the same ILR application as the parents. The child qualifies for ILR when both parents settle

Q2. What is the purpose of aiming for Section 3C cover and preventing overstaying here ?? Overstaying for UK-born children is a non-issue if below 10 years of age. It has no effect on their entitlement to citizenship at all. Just apply for MN1. The child will get British citizenship regardless of her/his immigration status

Q3. Yes. Section 3C kicks in when your visa expires and you have a pending visa application

Q4. It will be invalid as British citizens cannot apply for any form of leave to remain

Q5. Yes

Q6. No. Variation only applies to immigration applications NOT nationality applications. There are NOT related at all
Advice is given based on my personal research and experience only. Do NOT contact me via private message for immigration advice

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Re: UK born child - ILR first then MN1?

Post by mccheb » Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:16 pm

Many thanks for your help Zimba!
Q1. Yes, but why a dependant visa though? A child can be included in the same ILR application as the parents. The child qualifies for ILR when both parents settle
The main reason is the cost - my employer can cover the dependant visa cost, but not the ILR cost.
Q2. What is the purpose of aiming for Section 3C cover and preventing overstaying here ?? Overstaying for UK-born children is a non-issue if below 10 years of age. It has no effect on their entitlement to citizenship at all. Just apply for MN1. The child will get British citizenship regardless of her/his immigration status
Yes.. thank you, I am aware of this, but I would like to avoid any overstay if possible (this is because any such overstay could affect the child's future visa applications for other countries, e.g, Canada or Australia).

I believe the most sensible order of things, if parents' ILR are relatively straightforward and granted quickly, is

(parents ILR granted) -> (MN1 for the child - this could take quite long) -> (apply for dependant visa before the current visa expires)

But I am concerned about *invalidation* due to MN1 approval.
According to the guidance, if a dependant visa application is invalidated then 3C leave does not apply, i.e. even if I apply for a dependant visa before current visa expiry, if the application is later invalidated by the HO (in this case, due to the applicant becoming a BC), then my child would have overstayed.
On the other hand, in the same guidance:
Where the application becomes invalid because of a failure to provide biometrics the
Supreme Court clarified that section 3C leave came to an end at the point the Home
Office serves a notice of invalidity.
So according to this, withholding biometrics appears to be a valid way to ascertain 3C leave, but as I mentioned in previous post, this is only possible for about 45 days - if after 45 days MN1 is still not approved, I will have to enrol biometrics, and again risk invalidation due to MN1 approval during the dependant visa process.

I would be very grateful if any of the members or moderators see a way out of this dilemma.
What should I do to avoid any risk of overstaying (provided that the parents' ILR are granted quickly, of course)?

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Re: UK born child - ILR first then MN1?

Post by zimba » Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:44 am

Your problem is this baseless claim about overstaying as a UK born child. You are not the first person to use the route to citizenship for a child. The child will face none of the issues you mentioned above at all. Those are all claims made by you without any basis and you seem to be catastrophising. A visa for other countries has no relevance for a child in the UK who is now a British citizen. This is a bizarre claim.

You can ask your employer to apply for a dependant visa but any other worries beyond that are totally unnecessary
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Re: UK born child - ILR first then MN1?

Post by mccheb » Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:43 pm

Many thanks for all your help. I have decided to play it safe and apply ILR for all of us (adding my wife and my son as dependants on my SET(O) form).

I have some additional queries regarding the documents requested:

1. I have been asked to provide some cohabitation evidence:
If you have added a spouse or civil partner to this application form who is applying at the same time as you, please provide documentary evidence of cohabitation since you were last granted leave (up to a maximum of two years). Evidence provided should cover the whole period and be in the form of official letters or documents, addressed to yourself and your spouse.
What we have are:

rental agreements, joint names (one covering Oct 2020 - Sep 2021, one covering Oct 2021 - Sep 2022)
council tax bills, joint names (since Oct 2020)
electricity bills, joint names (since Oct 2020)

Unfortunately, we only have these in the form of online PDF files.
And strictly speaking, these only cover 1 years 10 months instead of 2 years (I switched employer - when I was last granted leave - and moved in Oct 2020).
Do you think this is okay?

2. It asks for
Evidence of (the lead applicant)'s immigration status in the UK
But it also asks for
Current Biometric Residence Permit for (the lead applicant)
I can only assume that these two items can both be satisfied by my BRP?

3. The system asks:
Your most recent payslip and bank or building society statement. These must be dated no earlier than one calendar month before the date of the application. The statement must show the payment, as shown on the payslip. You should not provide any additional payslips or statements, unless you are currently on maternity, paternity, shared parental or adoption leave.
So I should not provide statements for the past 3 or 6 months, and really only upload the most recent payslip and statement? Then, again, both of these are just PDF files - is this okay?

Many thanks again for your help, as always!

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Re: UK born child - ILR first then MN1?

Post by zimba » Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:24 pm

1. Any evidence can be used. All digital evidence is accepted
2. BRP is enough
3. No. Only the latest one is required. All digital evidence is accepted
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Re: UK born child - ILR first then MN1?

Post by mccheb » Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:28 pm

Many thanks for your response Zimba! I will update when I get a result.

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Re: UK born child - ILR first then MN1?

Post by mccheb » Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:00 am

We have submitted the application and are waiting for the biometrics appointment now.
Just wondering if documents that appear *after* the date of application, but *before* the biometrics appointment have to be uploaded? For example, a new payslip has become availble since I submitted the application online. Many thanks for help!

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Re: UK born child - ILR first then MN1?

Post by Ticktack » Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:32 am

mccheb wrote:
Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:00 am
We have submitted the application and are waiting for the biometrics appointment now.
Just wondering if documents that appear *after* the date of application, but *before* the biometrics appointment have to be uploaded? For example, a new payslip has become availble since I submitted the application online. Many thanks for help!
Once you submit, that's it. You can upload if you want, but it wouldn't form part of your application anymore.

"C'est fini"
No sin in failing, you just have to try and try again!

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Re: UK born child - ILR first then MN1?

Post by mccheb » Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:26 am

Many thanks Ticktack. Just to confirm - my understanding is that I can upload documents (e.g., scanned passport, BRPs) up until 48 hours before the biometrics appointment - which for me has not happened yet.

Do you mean that the caseworker will look at the dates of the documents, and simply ignore those dated after the application date (but before the biometrics day, of course)?

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Re: UK born child - ILR first then MN1?

Post by CR001 » Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:27 am

The date of application that is relevant to the dates of your supporting documents is the date you submit and pay online and not your biometric appointment date.
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Re: UK born child - ILR first then MN1?

Post by mccheb » Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:57 am

Many thanks for your advice again. I have decided to use only those documents dated *strictly before* the date of application (which unfortunately was about a month ago already!)

I have a question about consent forms. I am applying ILR with my wife and my child (3 applicants in total) - I have currently submited two copies of consent forms:

1. part 1 signed by me, part 2 signed by my wife, part 3 left empty
2. part 1 signed by my wife, part 2 signed by me, part 3 left empty

Do we need to submit another consent form for my child? This is not in the document checklist, and we do not have any account (bank, utility, etc.) that has my 3-year-old child's name.

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Re: UK born child - ILR first then MN1?

Post by AmazonianX » Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:50 pm

mccheb wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:57 am
Many thanks for your advice again. I have decided to use only those documents dated *strictly before* the date of application (which unfortunately was about a month ago already!)

I have a question about consent forms. I am applying ILR with my wife and my child (3 applicants in total) - I have currently submited two copies of consent forms:

1. part 1 signed by me, part 2 signed by my wife, part 3 left empty Do not leave empty Part 3 write Not Applicable
2. part 1 signed by my wife, part 2 signed by me, part 3 left empty Do not leave empty Part 3 write Not Applicable

Do we need to submit another consent form for my child? This is not in the document checklist, and we do not have any account (bank, utility, etc.) that has my 3-year-old child's name. Logically no

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