Counting the 28 days before 5 years

[gjim83]

Hello,

I''m a bit unsure how to count the 28 days before my qualifying period is complete in order to calculate the first day when I'm allowed to apply for 5yr ILR.

I entered the UK less than 2 weeks after the first date on my original visa (let's say 25/07/2019), so my understanding is that the original date of the visa is the start of the qualifying period

I have two main doubts:
- would the 5 years years be considered complete on the 24/07/2024 or on the 25th?
- let's say the correct answer is the 24th: would that be day 0 or day -1? for example, if I had to count 2 days before 24th, would I do 24 is day 0, 23 is day -1, 22 is day -2? or would it be 24 is day -1, 23 is day -2?

I understand these may be obvious to some but I don't want to fail my application due to applying early. I have lived out of my home country for a while in different places, but I never became a permanent resident anywhere so I'm a bit anxious to apply ASAP.

Thanks

[lolo2]

What's is your visa type/route?

let's say 25/07/2019

Is this the actual valid date from on the vignette or an example?

[gjim83]

What's is your visa type/route?

Skilled Worker, 5 years

Is this the actual valid date from on the vignette or an example?

An example of a vignette "valid from" date

[lolo2]

There is another post with a similar query, dates, etc, that also answer your questions.

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=346692&sid=92653ea ... 12fc19db59

[gjim83]

Thanks. It is similar, but I think it would be useful for me to mention that I intend to use the 5 day priority service, therefore relying on the date of decision will not help me as that will almost surely be before the 5 years are complete.

The guidance says

• any date up to 28 days after the date of application

This is why I'm specifically trying to get clarification on which specific date counts as the completion of the 5 years of qualifying period and how to count the 28 days before that.

For the purposes of the question let's just settle on 25/07/2019 as the start of my qualifying period for ILR under the Skilled Worker 5 year route:

• Would my 5 year qualifying period be complete on 24 or 25/07/2024?

• Would that date be day 0 or day -1 when I start counting backwards until day -28?

[lolo2]

25/07/2019 - 25/07/2024 - five years, the day before (24/07) is day one-backwards.

The date of decision is highlighted in there because that's the most beneficial date for an applicant, it's the last stage of the process. The date of application is the least beneficial and somehow less relevant for this calculation.

You should apply so that the date of decision falls within the 5 years-28 days concession. As nobody is 100% sure when a decision will be made, it's a common practice to book biometrics within this 5y-28d timeframe so you'll certainly be eligible when a decision is made.

[gjim83]

Thank you very much.
I think this bit is particularly helpful:

it's a common practice to book biometrics within this 5y-28d timeframe so you'll certainly be eligible when a decision is made.

I'll do it this way. I take it then that the biometrics appointment is the actual, final "application" date as opposed to when I submit the online form then?

[zimba]

How to apply early and benefit from the date of the ILR decision ?

[gjim83]

How to apply early and benefit from the date of the ILR decision ?

I saw that and I've read it many times but I don't understand how I can conclude the application date isn't important based on it.

Taking the date I mentioned 25/07/2019 as the date of my T2 General Visa grant (i.e. vignette "valid from" date), and lolo2's comment about the qualifying period, my minimum qualifying period would run from 25/07/2019 to 25/07/2024, and 28 days before the end is 27/06/2024.

Taking into account I plan to use the 5 day premium service, this is my understanding of the applicability of the guidance in my case:

• the date of application: the earliest I could apply is 25/07/2024, if I apply earlier when counting 5 years before it would be a date before my visa was first granted
• any date up to 28 days after the date of application: the earliest I could apply is 27/06/2024, because if they go forward 28 days they will get to 25/07/2024, and 5 years back is the date my visa was first granted
• the date of decision: the earliest I can apply is 25/07/2024 because assuming (even if practically impossible) that they make the decision the same day or a couple days after I apply, if I apply earlier than 25/07/2024 and the decision is made before 25/07 then counting back 5 years will be a date before my visa was granted
• (...)UK Ancestry route(...): not applicable

From my understanding, the date of application is actually very important if I want to take advantage of the 28 day rule.

[zimba]

Your understanding is incorrect. The earliest date of eligibility for ILR is indeed 28 days before completing your 5-year period. This means from that point onwards your ILR can be granted by the UKVI. In a nutshell, you do NOT necessarily need to complete the full 5 years. That is the main part of your incorrect assumption. The fact that they counting backwards for 5 years from the date of the decision will land you before your initial visa grant also becomes a non-issue.

[dx_]

I think I've had similar confusion to OP. I understand that everyone always says 5y-28d, and I acknowldge above that you say it's a common practice to book biometrics within this 5y-28d timeframe.

However, ILR guideance always says "5 years lawfully in the UK" (e.g. https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ous-period), and it's only when referring to counting back from the date of application that 28 days is mentioned, and that isn't mentioned for date of decision.

Is this just a case of this being approved on 5y-28d of the date of decision not being explicitly stated in the rules, but in practice tends to happen anyway?

[gjim83]

(...) The earliest date of eligibility for ILR is indeed 28 days before completing your 5-year period. (...)

Then my question is where is this eligibility defined in the guidance or any other document?

I assumed that those 28 days come from the fact that the guidance says:

You must count backwards from whichever of the following is most beneficial to the applicant to see whether they meet the qualifying period:
(...)
• any date up to 28 days after the date of application

meaning, if the application date (specifically application, not decision nor biometrics) is on or after the date of "5 years - 28 days" then it's valid. It does not say the same thing for the decision date, and I don't see any mention of the biometrics appointment.

But then if that assumption is incorrect, could you please point me to the correct place where this stipulated?

Thanks

[gjim83]

I think I've had similar confusion to OP.

Glad to see it's not just me

[zimba]

I think I've had similar confusion to OP. I understand that everyone always says 5y-28d, and I acknowldge above that you say it's a common practice to book biometrics within this 5y-28d timeframe.

However, ILR guideance always says "5 years lawfully in the UK" (e.g. https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ous-period), and it's only when referring to counting back from the date of application that 28 days is mentioned, and that isn't mentioned for date of decision.

Is this just a case of this being approved on 5y-28d of the date of decision not being explicitly stated in the rules, but in practice tends to happen anyway?

There is no such thing as the 28-day rule at all, it is a historical concession that UKVI offers. People with little to no experience with the immigration system are always confused by this as they want a simple place to look this up and routinely want to see such a 'rule'. I am afraid this requires lots of experience with the system and a proper understanding of lawful residence as well as section 3C of the immigration act and the immigration procedures. You want the immigration system to be simple and everything to be explained in a simple way in the guides and easy to find but I am afraid it is not always that simple. I tried to cover the grounds and justifications for how everything comes together in my post on applying early.

Most applicants know very little about how this system works historically but a good example is the old PEO visa centers. Historically the home office offered in-person window service (until 2018 before moving online) where you could apply on the same day and get a decision within hours of attending a PEO center while waiting. If the 28-day concession did not apply, then many of those people could NOT be granted ILR at all. After all they told you to apply within 28 days but then should have refused to grant you ILR on the same day you'd expect, but that is not what happened in PEO centres. This concession is nothing new and has been in place for many years. It has been the norm that ILR can be granted early and within 28 days of completing your 5 years and the home office has granted ILR as per this concession without fail.

[zimba]

By the way in the old guides (from several years ago), applying early and counting lawful residence was described in a different way. The date of application was used but then any shortfall in the beginning was ignored. I guess this is what you were asking a few posts before regarding the shortfall in the beginning/start of your qualifying period:

Calculating the specified continuous period
Applicants can submit a settlement application up to 28 days before they would
reach the end of the specified period. However, the specified continuous period is
always counted backwards from the date the ILR application is submitted. For
example, if an applicant would have reached the end of a specified 5 years with
leave in a qualifying route on 30 November 2016 and they apply on 11 November
2016, the consecutive periods would be as follows:
Page 15 of 25 Published for Home Office staff on 06 April 2017
 year 1 – 11 November 2015 to 12 November 2016
 year 2 - 11 November 2015 to 12 November 2014
 year 3 - 11 November 2014 to 12 November 2013
 year 4 - 11 November 2013 to 12 November 2012
 year 5 - 11 November 2012 to 12 November 2011

The applicant may not have had leave in a qualifying route for up to 28 days at the start of Year 5 (in this example, between 11 November 2011 and 29 November 2012). This is acceptable.

This gives you effectively the same result as counting the lawful residence from a date that is beneficial to you (like the date of decision), which is a slightly different but much better view of such concession as expressed in the current guide. In a nutshell, a shortfall of up to 28 days is not an issue for the grant of ILR.

Source (circa 2017 & archived)
Indefinite leave to remain: calculating continuous period in UK: https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov ... riod-in-uk

Similar advice is given by me in 2017: viewtopic.php?t=244747#p1570902

[gjim83]

Yes, that certainly helps to put context to it.

I think the confusion in people like myself can arise from the fact that most often, caseworker guidance documents and rules are quoted when explaining the ins and outs of these processes. But in this case there was a concession that UKVI make when deciding settlement applications, which is seemingly at odds with the current caseworker guidance.

Perhaps it would be useful to share this context with people in the future if they express confusion in this topic.

Judging by what was said here, namely

the specified continuous period is always counted backwards from the date the ILR application is submitted

I will submit my application on or after 5 years - 28 days and base the rest of the process from there.

Thanks for your help

[lolo2]

Just an example as this was me.

I have a SW visa that started on 25/07/2019 + 5 years - 28 days = 27/06/2024.

I could submit my ILR application even today and, as I have up to 45 days to book biometrics, I would book this appointment on 27/06/2024 (day # 40) or at any date onwards up to day # 45.

This will make me eligible for ILR when a decision is made, irrespective if the decision is taken within 5 days after biometrics or later.

[gjim83]

This will make me eligible for ILR when a decision is made, irrespective if the decision is taken within 5 days after biometrics or later.

Right, so that would be because of the concession that the HO/UKVI make that making a decision 28 days before the actual completion of the qualifying period is acceptable, regardless that the caseworker guidance as of today only instructs to count 28 days from the date of application.

Things are clear now, thanks for your patience.

[gjim83]

I am about to apply for 5 year SWV ILR. When my SWV was renewed in 2022 I was given an eVisa, not a new BRP. I did not receive instructions from UKVI nor my employer's immigration solicitors to return the old BRP that was about to expire (I have checked many times, 100% sure of this). I was not aware until recently that most people are told to cut it up and return their old BRP when they have an extension of some sort, or naturalisation (just not something that normally comes up in coversation with other immigrants).

Should I proactively return it before I submit my ILR application, or should I explain I still have it and I can return if instructed to do so?

In either case if I send it or not, I was considering attaching a cover letter about this topic and attaching a copy of the UKVI letter of SWV renewal where it shows no instructions to return it were given.

[Ticktack]

I am about to apply for 5 year SWV ILR. When my SWV was renewed in 2022 I was given an eVisa, not a new BRP. I did not receive instructions from UKVI nor my employer's immigration solicitors to return the old BRP that was about to expire (I have checked many times, 100% sure of this). I was not aware until recently that most people are told to cut it up and return their old BRP when they have an extension of some sort, or naturalisation (just not something that normally comes up in coversation with other immigrants).

Should I proactively return it before I submit my ILR application, or should I explain I still have it and I can return if instructed to do so?

In either case if I send it or not, I was considering attaching a cover letter about this topic and attaching a copy of the UKVI letter of SWV renewal where it shows no instructions to return it were given.

It's not a problem, if it was, you would have gotten a fine a while back. You can decide to return it or keep it as a souvenir. Not sure it matters much at this stage.
Everything is going digital now as you've noticed.

[gjim83]

Thanks for the quick reply Ticktack

In that case it sounds like the cover letter and explanation aren't even really necessary?

[Ticktack]

Thanks for the quick reply Ticktack

In that case it sounds like the cover letter and explanation aren't even really necessary? Sounds rhetorical, but yes, let sleeping dogs snooze!

[gjim83]

Sounds rhetorical, but yes, let sleeping dogs snooze!

got it! thanks!

[TerryGH]

No one tracks returned BRPs. You can always say you sent it, Royal Mail loses thousands of letters every year, HO have no means to check if you really sent it.

The only way for HO to issue a fine, if they catch you using the BRP which was supposed to be returned. As long as you don't use it, there will be no issues.

[gjim83]

No one tracks returned BRPs. You can always say you sent it, Royal Mail loses thousands of letters every year, HO have no means to check if you really sent it.

The only way for HO to issue a fine, if they catch you using the BRP which was supposed to be returned. As long as you don't use it, there will be no issues.

While I don't doubt that's how it works in practice, unfortunately my brain would make me too paranoid to make something up about already having returned it I'd spend the whole time waiting for a response incredibly anxious.