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180 day rule for ILR

Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:56 am
by johnnyng
Hi all,

Following the posts on this forum, I am not so clear this particular rule. If possible, could you please help me with my case?

I am under work permit from Mar 05 so I am eligible to apply for IRL on Feb 09. Have not got the appointment yet but I will keep on checking. From Mar 05 till now, I am working for the same company and I have 5 P60 (05 -> 09) and other required documents.

The only problem that I have is that the number of days outside UK of mine is 231 days. Out of that, only 6 days are business and I can get letter from my employer to prove that but that still leave me with 224 days :(

So my questions are:

1. The way I count the days include the day I leave UK and they day I come back to UK. For example if I went to France on 05/05/05 and coming back on 10/05/05, the total of days absent for this period is 6. Is this correct or should I only put it as 4 (excluding the begin and end of the trip)? If I exclude all the days in and out, it still leave me with 192 days :(

2. During this period, I went back to my country for a few times (around 30 days in total) for my father funeral and 1 time (30 days) for my marriage. Can these periods be viewed as a compasionate ground and is there any rule on this?

3. Based on my information and your experience, do you think I will get the ILR? If not, is there any advice you can give me?

Thank you all very much,

Johnny Ng

Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:30 pm
by tsumeisienna
You should exclude days of travel i.e. the day you left UK and day you arrived in UK.

Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:38 pm
by winber
I'll be very interested in how you go, my absences add up to nearly the same number.

So you are not going to do it by post? From what I gather if you have more than a certain number of absences they'll turn it into a postal application at the PEO.

Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:13 am
by johnnyng
winber wrote:I'll be very interested in how you go, my absences add up to nearly the same number.

So you are not going to do it by post? From what I gather if you have more than a certain number of absences they'll turn it into a postal application at the PEO.
I am still trying to get appointment but not much success at the minute. Is there any different or problem if my application got converted to postal application at the PEO? And surely I will keep you updated.
tsumeisienna wrote:You should exclude days of travel i.e. the day you left UK and day you arrived in UK.
Is this affirmative? I phone them up and they said no. There are posts in this forum says I can but it is not clear. I am very interested in any other members that have similar situation and have actually applied.

Cheers,

Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:11 pm
by winber
I don't think there is any problem if they convert the application at the PEO.

Regarding the dates - doesn't the application form to say to put down the date of departure and date of return? So that is what you should put down - don't chop a day off either side or you risk upsetting them.

It would be worth supplying proof I think of the different reasons you were absent.

Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:57 pm
by johnnyng
winber wrote:Regarding the dates - doesn't the application form to say to put down the date of departure and date of return? So that is what you should put down - don't chop a day off either side or you risk upsetting them.

It would be worth supplying proof I think of the different reasons you were absent.
yes I will include the date of return and departure. however, when counting the absences, do they count these dates or only the days in between?

cheers,

Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:12 pm
by f2k
the ukba guidance notes say you should not count the dates of departure and arrival.

basically you were present in the UK on those dates even if it was only for 5 minutes

Same question

Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:40 am
by Alishah
I am not sure; If I go on paid annual leave or holidays out of UK, during this period I pay all the taxes and recieve salary in UK bank account.

Still these days are counted as out of UK and I will be disqualifiy?

Please answer

Re: Same question

Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:56 am
by meats
Alishah wrote:I am not sure; If I go on paid annual leave or holidays out of UK, during this period I pay all the taxes and recieve salary in UK bank account.

Still these days are counted as out of UK and I will be disqualifiy?

Please answer
Holidays, paid or unpaid, count as days out of the country as you left out of choice and were not sent by work.

Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:28 pm
by gidoc
Hi all,
Yes the absence are absences but theyre legal and applying the 6 wk leave rule per year, 30 wks in 5 yrs should be legal leaves.
This will mean excluding travel days close to 180-190 days of absences which is how I believe they may have got this magic figure.
Previous posters have stressed that they look at ' absences >90 days ' seriously '. Apart from that most posters have had excess days due to business trips, for which they have carried letters.

This leaves holidays outside the UK which unless you did not have a job, would be less than 200 days, counting 40 days outside UK / year.

Would then this be a reasonable number of absences in 5 yrs? Will one be asked why you traveled on holiday every year? I doubt it! It is likely that for most working people this number will be between 150-200 days,higher for some, like me, who only travel abroad for holidays every year.

Please give your experiences if you have had these many days of absences as holidays and got ILR without much trouble.

Best regards

Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:53 pm
by winber
I know somebody who got ILR at Croydon PEO last week. Had 220 days absences, 40 of which were business related + letter from employer to prove.

They put a post it note on pages in the passport with relevant stamps - the processing officer was grateful for this and allowed them to make a decision in 15 minutes.

Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:12 pm
by gidoc
Thanks
That is a really good idea, to put post it, on passport, highlighting absences.

In a passport like mine( 3 stapled together and going back to 1988, as the first still has an active US visa), it took me an hour to trace all stamps and put together a data sheet.

Any more examples will be highly appreciated.

best regards

Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 6:38 pm
by johnnyng
I have consulted with a few immigration lawyers and they all stated that since my number of days outside UK (minutes business trips) is quite high (220 days), they cannot guarantee that I will have ILR.

Some of them suggested that I should apply for Tier 1 and then apply ILR at a later date when the total number of days become less than 180. I am thinking of doing that to be on the safe side.

Cheers,

Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 6:59 pm
by gidoc
Hi
Thanks for your response. As per my estimation above I thought that less than 200 days will be a reasonable number of private absences. Did the immigration lawyers you consulted give any number at all?

My private absences will be close to 190 unless I cancel my 17 days of holidays planned in Feb-Mar before my eligibility date in April 2010.

In the event that one does have further Tier 1 leave, one will have to choose a new start point provided that in the initial 6 -12months one does have many absences, to compensate.

best regards

Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:20 pm
by republique
johnnyng wrote:I have consulted with a few immigration lawyers and they all stated that since my number of days outside UK (minutes business trips) is quite high (220 days), they cannot guarantee that I will have ILR.

Some of them suggested that I should apply for Tier 1 and then apply ILR at a later date when the total number of days become less than 180. I am thinking of doing that to be on the safe side.

Cheers,
My understanding is that if you apply for ILR and do not qualify that it is converted to an application for extension. See caseworker's manual for confirmation. It would be prudent to provide the documentation that satisfies the criteria for extension with your ILR application.

Re: Same question

Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:51 pm
by 007
Alishah wrote:I am not sure; If I go on paid annual leave or holidays out of UK, during this period I pay all the taxes and recieve salary in UK bank account.

Still these days are counted as out of UK and I will be disqualifiy?

Please answer
No, the paid holidays and travel dates are not included.
I recently applied for my ILR, with 228 days absence outside UK (including paid holiday in summer + easter) during the last 4 years, and got my ILR without any problems.

Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:15 pm
by gidoc
Hi 007
Thanks for your response
Just to clarify about absences, the guidance does say that paid AL holidays and business trips will be allowed, did you mention all your absences in the form ?
You were not asked to explain?
My holidays will come up close to 190 days in 5 yr period, and I was seriously considering reducing my forthcoming 15 days trip before applying for ILR.
Thanks
best regards

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:35 am
by 007
gidoc wrote:Hi 007
Thanks for your response
Just to clarify about absences, the guidance does say that paid AL holidays and business trips will be allowed, did you mention all your absences in the form ?
Yes, I did include all dates of my absences, with brief explanation for each.
Anyway, the HO can find this from the UK entry stamps, and your country exit stamps in your passport. It is safer to include all your dates, even if they are not clear in your passport.
My holidays will come up close to 190 days in 5 yr period, and I was seriously considering reducing my forthcoming 15 days trip before applying for ILR.
If your trip is not a paid holiday or family reason, it would be better to reduce or cancel it.
If you have any paid holidays or, any family reason (attending marriage, funural, etc), I think the HO will take this into account.

Regards.

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:13 pm
by gidoc
Thanks for your response.
My holidays are all entitled annual leave as I have permanent employment, so it should be okay then.
Best regards

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:07 am
by Alishah
Holidays, paid or unpaid, count as days out of the country as you left out of choice and were not sent by work.
Sounds confusing, since 007 mentioned something diffrent which is in our favour? what to believe?
No, the paid holidays and travel dates are not included.
I recently applied for my ILR, with 228 days absence outside UK (including paid holiday in summer + easter) during the last 4 years, and got my ILR without any problems.
I dont know what is correct?
TA