Urgent help needed.. stranded in Doha airport!

[megmog]

Hi guys,

I just posted this on the Irish board as well as I didnt see this category!

I'm really, really really hoping someone might be able to offer some advice here.. i'm writing this post from Doha airport, where my husband and I have been stranded for the past 24 hours. We were transferring flights from Johannesburg to London and they wouldnt let my husband board as his EEA Family Permit had expired (although he is in possession of a 5 year Irish Residence Card and UK Residence permit that was supposedly being processed.)

We just found out that some fool within the UKBA took it upon himself to put his residence permit application for the UK on hold when i called to enquire about going on holiday to South Africa.. I was also advised this was not an issue by this incompetent person, omitting to tell me that this would declare his "on hold" application null and void!! We have been told our only option is to go back to Dublin (which we left a year ago) and re-apply for an EEA Family Permit to allow him to enter the UK again...

The reason I am writing this here is because I was wondering if anyone had experience of applying for an EEA Permit in Dublin at the British Embassy, but without being actively resident if that makes sense? We have been living and working in the UK for the past year whilst waiting for his residence card and now this... I am truly at a loss for words that this could happen.

We are due to arrive in Dublin tomorrow, does anyone know if we stand any chance of getting an emergency appointment at the embassy (as advised by the embassy here in Doha) on Monday?? Or if they will issue/re-issue the EEA Permit even though we left a year ago?

Any advice would be truly appreciated, as you can imagine this is a dire, and lonely experience.

Thanks.

[86ti]

You can apply for an EEA family permit at any British visa issuing post. Residence is not a requirement. See http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/ecg/eunati ... t#13627112 . EDIT: Your Irish residence card isn't valid anymore.

Practical problem may be that embassy staff does not always know about this.

[megmog]

Hi,

Why would his Irish residence card not be valid anymore? It's valid until 2012.

We applied for this via the Surinder Singh ruling re. EEA Applications..I am a British Citizen and was living/working in Ireland as an EU Citizen and therefore his application had to be considered as such...

But the catch 22 is that we have been living in the UK for the past year on this basis!

[86ti]

Why would his Irish residence card not be valid anymore?

Because you left over a year ago and hence broke residence. Normally you can stay away for only up to 6 months and only longer in exceptional circumstances.

[Ben]

Duplicate thread.

[megmog]

Ok, I had another look at the wording of those rules.. they state that we have demonstrate I was engaged as a economically active member of a member state prior to coming to the UK.. so would that include last 2 years prior to being in the UK when we lived together in Ireland? If we provide documentation of that period would that suffice?

Benifa... what documents that we are in posession of would fulfill the entry requirement?

[Ben]

You have a British passport - Ireland will let you in.
Your spouse has a non-EU passport but has a Stamp 4 EUFam Residence Card - we know it's now technically invalid, but it would get him in all the same.

Once in Ireland, fly, sail or drive to the UK. Continue as you were before you left.

[megmog]

Ok.. but we are going to need to travel.. and they are saying our residence application is invalid as we left the country.. so once we are in, we're stuck there?

On the other hand... does anyone know... when you apply for your initial EEA FP using Surinder Singh ruling.. do you retain those rights as an active EEA Member? So for instance, if I was German, and my husband entered on that basis, he could apply for another EEA FP whenever he wanted to re-enter... so based on the Surinder Singh ruling, I should retain my rights as a previously active EEA Member (living with my husband in another member state...)... is that correct?

[Obie]

Firstly, your residency application is not void or invalid. It does not become void simply because you left the country for a short holiday. It can only become void once you left for more than 6 months, without any intention of returning. By all indications, you commenced economic activity once you entered the UK, in that case, your residency application is still valid.

The UK border agency staff is only saying this because he/she knows that your husband is overseas, and to some degree powerless.

You need to apply for an EEA family permit from DOha, and you should not be refused. It would also be great if you can show them that you have become a qualified person, since you returned to the UK.

It should be issued speedily.

Alternatively, you could get a flight to Ireland republic and from there reenter the UK, which is perfectly legal.

I suspect people have already advised you on this.

Surrinder Singh can be claimed by your non-EEA spouse at any time. There is no time limit. In the case law, Mr Singh claimed it several years after him and his wife returned from Germany, and after they had legally divorced.

[megmog]

Thanks guys for all your advice. I will let you know how it works out.

I believe there has been some level of illegal activity on behalf of the english immigration staff (or at the very least misinformed) and we are intending to consult a lawyer when we get back. I'm sick of there behaviour!

[megmog]

Hi everyone,

We landed in Dublin yesterday and I was just able to speak to someone at the British Embassy in Dublin. They advised that if we wish to make another visa application, we have to book an appointment via the usual online application system. This process could take weeks, during which time my husband will lose his job in the UK and we could quite possibly lose our home as I will not be able to cover the bills.

Does anyone know, if we are able to re-enter the UK without another EEA Family Permit, would we be able to re-apply for the EEA2 Residence Card? Obviously the new application will be made outside of the original EEA FP valid from/to dates.

Would it be illegal for us to enter the UK without another EEA FP?

Does anyone have a contact number for the UKBA in Liverpool that actually works?

I reviewed the EEA guidelines and it does clearly state that a Residence Card is just a formality and not required.. so on what basis could our new application be rejected?

[Ben]

Hi megmog.

Enter the UK from Ireland without a new EEA FP but with your passports and marriage cert. This entry is lawful.

Once in the UK, find out what the story is with your husband's pending EEA2 application and, if necessary, submit a fresh application.

No point in wasting your time contacting the embassy or any other office of civil servants, at this time.

[megmog]

Ok, thanks for your advice. Just a couple of questions.. when you enter the UK from Ireland there is no border control (I know this because we lived here and travelled to uk on a number of occasions) - so my husband will not receive any kind of entry stamp. Does that still make it lawful?

What kind of entry would be unlawful?

If we have to make a fresh application, does it matter that the original EEA FP has expired?

[86ti]

At the end of the day it doesn't matter whether your husband entered the UK lawfully or not (see Metock case). As a genuine family member he has the right to be with you and stay in the UK based on EEA regulations.

[Ben]

Ok, thanks for your advice. Just a couple of questions.. when you enter the UK from Ireland there is no border control (I know this because we lived here and travelled to uk on a number of occasions) - so my husband will not receive any kind of entry stamp. Does that still make it lawful?

Yes.

What kind of entry would be unlawful?

The entry of a person who has no right or required permission to do so.

If we have to make a fresh application, does it matter that the original EEA FP has expired?

It does not matter at all. An EEA FP is a form of entry clearance which may aid the holder when travelling to the UK. That is all.

[megmog]

If my husband has been refused entry (verbally) by the immigration officer in Gatwick (although not on English soil, thats just what he told the airline in Doha) does that mean that he would be entering illegally if we went via Dublin without a new EEA FP?

One thing I really cant seem to find any info on is how/why they are able to "hold" an application in the first place, and how they are able to cancel it if you travel? If the EEA2 has been cancelled by the fact we travelled, are we legitimately able to re-apply again?

I'm just trying to weigh up our options, and what will be the best long term solution.

[Ben]

If my husband has been refused entry (verbally) by the immigration officer in Gatwick (although not on English soil, thats just what he told the airline in Doha) does that mean that he would be entering illegally if we went via Dublin without a new EEA FP?

No, it does not mean he would be entering illegally if he entered the UK from Ireland without a new EEA FP.

One thing I really cant seem to find any info on is how/why they are able to "hold" an application in the first place, and how they are able to cancel it if you travel? If the EEA2 has been cancelled by the fact we travelled, are we legitimately able to re-apply again?

If I were you, once back in the UK, I'd find out what the story is with my spouse's pending EEA2 application and, if necessary, submit a fresh application while rolling my eyes. That is all.

There is no point putting legs on a snake.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

megmog,

How long have you been out of the UK? Was this just a short vacation to South Africa?

Did your husband previously enter the UK on a EEA Family permit? When did that expire?

[megmog]

Hi,

We were out of the UK for 3 weeks, on a short vacation to South Africa. My husband originally entered the UK on a EEA Family Permit, which expired in Jan.

Update - we are now back in the UK, having flown in from Dublin without any issues. I have since spoken to the UK Border Agency, who confirmed that our application was NOT on hold or cancelled, and that they had recently sent a letter requesting our documentation/passports to support our application. We got this when we returned yesterday, and I'm in the process of sending everything back to them.
This little excursion has cost in excess of £1500, and took 4 days.

What I dont understand, is how/why we were told by the British Embassy (who were told by Gatwick Immigration) that his application was on hold (at first they said we had withdrawn it, then they said it was on hold) and that because he travelled, it was "cancelled". Any ideas what's going on here or has someone just got it very, very wrong?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I suspect somebody just got it very wrong. Or like chinese whispers, somehow the detail got lost.

But.... Why don't you consider requesting your extra expenses back from the UK government? You may be in an ideal situation to do that. The is very clear requirement for them to let you in even if you do not have an EEA family permit or a Residence Card.

Who exactly said what to you in Doha? Did you UK embassy say you could not travel? Or was it the airline? Did you talk with Gatwick directly?

[megmog]

I would LOVE to request our expenses back but I'm not sure where to start? Should I contact an Immigration lawyer?

This was the order of events -

Boarding flight to London, airline staff said my husband had to get approval from their security desk as he didnt have current visa.

Went to Security desk, they weren't sure, so contacted somebody at the British Embassy in Doha.

The person at the British Embassy asked us to fax a couple of things, then spoke to Gatwick and called back to say we could not board the flight as Gatwick would not allow my husband to enter.

He then told us that he would review our situation in the morning when he had all the facts, and try and speak to Gatwick again. He called in the late morning to say he had tried, but again they said no. He then advised us our only option was to go to Dublin or back to South Africa to get another EEA Family Permit. We decided on Dublin, although in the end we didnt apply for another EEA FP, we just booked another flight to London after the UKBA told us our application was still under consideration, not on hold.

We were not able to speak to anyone at Gatwick directly.

What are your thoughts?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I doubt an immigration lawyer would be of much use. But I am not an expert on lawyers or solicitors or any such.

But I think you have a pretty straight forward case.

Do you have the name or phone number and times when you talked with the embassy in Doha? Write those down, along with all details you can remember of who said what and when.