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Posted: **Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:58 pm**

Hi everyone

Just looked over the new UKBA immigration rules and legislation. Just wondering would these apply to the EEA route applications?

Currently living in Ireland with Non EU wife who has Irish residence card, UK citizen, exercising EU treaty rights as in EU Directive 2004/38/EC (might have wrote that wrong, forgive me if I have, im sure you know what I mean anyway). Would we be affected should we wish to come to the UK to live or apply for a visit visa?

Nice one.

Posted: **Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:08 pm**

If you are working or self-employed in Ireland you will not be affected (as you could use the Singh route). If you chose to use the immigration rules, you would be affected when the changes come into effect.

Posted: **Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:13 pm**

andyjohnst wrote:Currently living in Ireland with Non EU wife who has Irish residence card, UK citizen, exercising EU treaty rights as in EU Directive 2004/38/EC (might have wrote that wrong, forgive me if I have, im sure you know what I mean anyway). Would we be affected should we wish to come to the UK to live or apply for a visit visa?.

If you have been working in Ireland, then your wife can use EU law to enter the UK. Very straight forward.

Note also that if she has a Irish Residence Card, she can enter the UK without a visa because of the CTA.

Posted: **Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:48 pm**

Yeah - been working full time over here since arrived in December 2011 Cheers thanks for the info.

Do you know the answer to this one?

If we decide to go to my wife's home country after living in Ireland, can we use the Singh rule to then come back to the UK together. Say if we stayed there for 3-4 years. Can we apply at the UK embassy under EEA route application if I keep proof that we lived and I worked in Ireland however many years ago? Is this allowed? Is there a time limit?

Posted: **Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:55 pm**

andyjohnst wrote: If we decide to go to my wife's home country after living in Ireland, can we use the Singh rule to then come back to the UK together. Say if we stayed there for 3-4 years. Can we apply at the UK embassy under EEA route application if I keep proof that we lived and I worked in Ireland however many years ago? Is this allowed? Is there a time limit?

The 2006 state the following;

Family members of United Kingdom nationals
9.—(1) If the conditions in paragraph (2) are satisfied, these Regulations apply to a person who is the family member of a United Kingdom national as if the United Kingdom national were an EEA national.
(2) The conditions are that—
(a) the United Kingdom national is residing in an EEA State as a worker or self-employed person or was so residing before returning to the United Kingdom; and
(b) if the family member of the United Kingdom national is his spouse or civil partner, the parties are living together in the EEA State or had entered into the marriage or civil partnership and were living together in that State before the United Kingdom national returned to the United Kingdom.
(3) Where these Regulations apply to the family member of a United Kingdom national the United Kingdom national shall be treated as holding a valid passport issued by an EEA State for the purpose of the application of regulation 13 to that family member.

Posted: **Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:22 pm**

andyjohnst wrote:If we decide to go to my wife's home country after living in Ireland, can we use the Singh rule to then come back to the UK together. Say if we stayed there for 3-4 years. Can we apply at the UK embassy under EEA route application if I keep proof that we lived and I worked in Ireland however many years ago? Is this allowed? Is there a time limit?

It is a good question. Imagine you were in Ireland and then moved to the US for 30 years, and then wanted to return to the UK.

(a) the United Kingdom national is residing in an EEA State as a worker or self-employed person or was so residing before returning to the United Kingdom; and

Note that this says was residing sometime "before" returning. There appears to be no requirement that it was "immediately before".

That said, you could always get an EEA Family Permit now, reside in the UK for a day or so by visiting friends or family, and then go on to your final destination. That provides a nice record of having entered the UK on the basis of European law.

Posted: **Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:27 pm**

My wife does have a tyce C visit visa for 6 months in her passport. We are going tomorrow for a visit. The visa states accompany EU spouse "my name"

This is what you're saying as entered under European Law, no?

Posted: **Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:57 pm**

andyjohnst wrote:My wife does have a tyce C visit visa for 6 months in her passport. We are going tomorrow for a visit. The visa states accompany EU spouse "my name"

This is what you're saying as entered under European Law, no?

Yes. So exactly what I was talking about.

(Your wife did not need a visa for the UK. Since she has a 4EUFam, she can enter the UK from Ireland without a visa.)

Posted: **Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:00 am**

Yeah - but in Ireland, while they are processing your residence card (they take the full 6 months) they issue you with a temporary residence card stating Stamp 4, not EU FAM so this is not recognised as the correct EU FAM permit. Hence the reason why we got the visa for UK. Turns out an added bonus now

Posted: **Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:58 am**

andyjohnst wrote:Yeah - but in Ireland, while they are processing your residence card (they take the full 6 months) they issue you with a temporary residence card stating Stamp 4, not EU FAM so this is not recognised as the correct EU FAM permit. Hence the reason why we got the visa for UK. Turns out an added bonus now :)

As long as your wife is in Ireland legally, she can enter the UK without a visa. Stamp 4 is fine.

Posted: **Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:48 am**

This sounds like a bit of a risky strategy to me -entering the UK for a day, leaving Ireland for a matter of years and then hoping to move to the UK under the Eea regulations. If i were you i would seek advice on whether this would work.

Posted: **Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:57 am**

Greenie wrote:This sounds like a bit of a risky strategy to me -entering the UK for a day, leaving Ireland for a matter of years and then hoping to move to the UK under the Eea regulations. If i were you i would seek advice on whether this would work.

What is the alternative in this case?

I think the law is on his side. And he already has a clear determination that EU law covers his entry in the form of the EEA FP.

Posted: **Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:02 am**

I would say the alternative is to move to the Uk, apply for an Eea residence card and then go to wifes home country.

Posted: **Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:23 am**

Greenie wrote:I would say the alternative is to move to the Uk, apply for an Eea residence card and then go to wifes home country.

In what way would that be "less risky"? The Residence Card is optional in any case, and would take 3-6 months to process. I do not see it would give them a more strong position?

Posted: **Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:44 am**

I don't necessarily think that 'residing in the Eea state before returning to the united kingdom' is fulfilled by returning for a day and then leaving again to go outside the EU for several years. My opinion is that it is risky and by obtaining a residence card now this eliminates the risk of being refused a residence card in 4 years time.

Posted: **Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:56 am**

Greenie wrote:I don't necessarily think that 'residing in the Eea state before returning to the united kingdom' is fulfilled by returning for a day and then leaving again to go outside the EU for several years. My opinion is that it is risky and by obtaining a residence card now this eliminates the risk of being refused a residence card in 4 years time.

I am not sure if I understand.

(1) They have already resided outside the UK in another EEA member state. In this case the British citizen was "exercising EU treaty rights"
(2) On the basis of (1) and the Singh ruling, the UK has been forced to issue an EEA FP to the spouse of a British citizen.
(3) They have (at this point) entered the UK, and are (temporarily) "resident" in the UK

They could at this point apply for an RC and get it issued if they wanted to stay here for the next 3-6 months. Or they could just leave and get on with their life. I guess I am not clear why getting a RC would be of any advantage.

I think the larger question is whether there is any time limit to using your Singh rights to reenter your home member state after having worked in a host member state. Singh does not limit the time. And you clearly do not need to directly reenter your home country after working in another member state.

Posted: **Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:09 am**

My concern is with the larger question, are we sure that there is no time limit in which to return to the home member state after having worked in another member state?

Posted: **Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:37 am**

Hello,

I am already in the uk with 6 month valid eea family permit and will expire september, still i didnt apply eea2 waiting my and spouse payslips then i w m gonna apply. My spouse wages under the ukba`s limit, mine as well. But we are working. Now, Will i affect or not? If i affect, send my documenns asap before release rules then will i affect or not?

Posted: **Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:46 am**

suzuki1985 wrote:I am already in the uk with 6 month valid eea family permit and will expire september, still i didnt apply eea2 waiting my and spouse payslips then i w m gonna apply. My spouse wages under the ukba`s limit, mine as well. But we are working. Now, Will i affect or not? If i affect, send my documenns asap before release rules then will i affect or not?

Start a new thread please!

Posted: **Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:30 pm**

1 thing. My with does have a 5 years valid Irish Residents card. Would she have to hand this in when and if we go to Baku. We might go but we have not decided.

As this will have EU FAM on it, we can use it to enter the UK in the future, visa free and then apply for the correct EEA family permit?

Posted: **Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:19 pm**

andyjohnst wrote:1 thing. My with does have a 5 years valid Irish Residents card. Would she have to hand this in when and if we go to Baku. We might go but we have not decided.

As this will have EU FAM on it, we can use it to enter the UK in the future, visa free and then apply for the correct EEA family permit?

4EUFam is still valid until you leave Ireland permanently or have been gone for more than 6 months.

Posted: **Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:14 pm**

So - there are new regulation now applicable to EEA applications.

Sorry - I'm not good at understanding these documents, they do confuse me.

I am currently living in Ireland with my non-eu spouse. Does that mean when we wish to go back to the UK, get an EEA family permit, after 5 years she will not get permanent residence as she would be given a a derivative residence card?

Sorry for my ignorance. I was only juts beginning to understand the old rules and regulations and this has confused the hell out of me :/

Posted: **Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:57 pm**

andyjohnst wrote:So - there are new regulation now applicable to EEA applications.

Sorry - I'm not good at understanding these documents, they do confuse me.

I am currently living in Ireland with my non-eu spouse. Does that mean when we wish to go back to the UK, get an EEA family permit, after 5 years she will not get permanent residence as she would be given a a derivative residence card?

Sorry for my ignorance. I was only juts beginning to understand the old rules and regulations and this has confused the hell out of me :/

I presume you are British who wants to use the Surinder Singh route to return to the UK. None of the changes in the EEA regulations affects you.

The new derivative RC is for specific cases where there is EEA child with non EEA parents.

Posted: **Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:14 pm**

That's correct. I am a British citizen and my wife is non-eu. Currently in Ireland working.

That's a relief though. Thought I'd missed the boat then.

Posted: **Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:17 pm**

andyjohnst wrote:Hi everyone,

does anyone have any experience in this?

I am a UK citizen, exercising EU free movement rules as laid down in EU Directive 2004/38/EC as a worker in Ireland. Non-EU Wife is here living with me and has been since we arrive.

We arrived in Ireland in December and I have been working since. Wife has an Irish Residence card and we have also been issued with an Accompany EEA spouse to UK visa in my wife's passport. We are also expecting a child in September, which we will get an Irish or UK passport.

Thing is now, in October, we will go to my wife's home country where I will work for the foreseeable future. After which, we want to them return to the UK.

the UK stipulates:

Family members of United Kingdom nationals
9.—(1) If the conditions in paragraph (2) are satisfied, these Regulations apply to a person who is the family member of a United Kingdom national as if the United Kingdom national were an EEA national.
(2) The conditions are that—
(a) the United Kingdom national is residing in an EEA State as a worker or self-employed person or was so residing before returning to the United Kingdom; and
(b) if the family member of the United Kingdom national is his spouse or civil partner, the parties are living together in the EEA State or had entered into the marriage or civil partnership and were living together in that State before the United Kingdom national returned to the United Kingdom.
(3) Where these Regulations apply to the family member of a United Kingdom national the United Kingdom national shall be treated as holding a valid passport issued by an EEA State for the purpose of the application of regulation 13 to that family member.
So I have been residing in an EEA State as a worker and will go to Azerbaijan for say 3-4 years and then return to UK. So in my opinion, we fulfill regulation 9.2(a). I would think Surinder Singh status still applies as they do not give a time scale???

Can anyone shed any light on this?

Casa wrote:I believe this route requires you to have been residing (and exercising your Treaty rights) immediately prior to returning to the UK. However, wait for confirmation on this there are others who are far more knowledgeable on the Surinder Singh ruling.... Obie in particular.

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