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Hello,

I am from Germany, my wife is from Brazil. We live in the UK since a while, she came here with a EEA family permit. (She needs it because she works here.) We applied for a residence permit for her, but processing times are long. The EEA permit is going to run out soon. We still travel a lot to Germany. (We still have the old flat there, and my father isn't too well.)

We need a short term solution for her to do these travels. Can we apply for another EEA permit? (The letter we received after we applied for the residence permit suggested that.)

Problems with that:
1) She would need to stay for a few weeks in Germany until she has the permit.
2) We officially live in the UK now. This is required for the residence permit. To get the EEA permit we need to officially live in Germany, I think. (Or is it enough to be in Germany when applying?)
3) It doesn't seem a good idea to leave the UK when we don't have a visa/permit for her to get back, but it would be very inconvinient otherwise. We are probably not the first persons who have this problem. Is there a tried and tested solution?

Many thanks,
Peter

First of all, as your wife is Brazilian (non-visa national) a EEA Family Permit was not required at the first place. Although if she started working from day 1, it is a good way to prove her right to work.

Why do you think she needs the EEA Family Permit for travel? It is not required by the UK authorities and I presume it has nothing to do with the German authorities.

As your wife, and assuming you are exercising treaty rights in the UK, she is entitled to live and work in the UK. As your wife, she can travel together with you visa free in Europe. Your marriage certificate is all the proof that is required when travelling.

The CoA (the letter acknowledging her RC application) could be used to enter the UK. I would also carry your marriage certificate in your hand luggage just in case but I don't think you will need to use it.

If you still not convinced and would like to apply for a EEA Family Permit, then she can apply anywhere in the world. She doesn't need to be a legal resident in that country but she will need to provide her passport and wait for it.

See a similar story (without even a CoA) - I re-entered with expired Family Permit (non-VISA national).

I concur with Jambo.

If you haven't done so already, ask for your passports back and get on with it. Your wife is very lucky not being a visa national for neither the UK nor Schengen. If she were, things would be more complicated.

Hello,

thanks for your replies so far. There are however a few things I do not quite understand yet.

1) I know my wife is not a visa national, but when she is entering the UK, she is comming here to work. So being a non-visa national is not really of any help, because she cannot use the visitor route.

2) To me it seems the CoA does not really prove anything? Someone could apply for it who has no right to live and work in the UK, and with the CoA get a 6-month free ticket. Nobody checked our application yet.

3) Jambo says: "As your wife, she can travel together with you visa free in Europe." Okay, but what if she travels alone, without me?

4) UKBA wrote my wife a letter saying (after wa asked for our passports back): ""family members of an EEA national, who are not themselves EEA nationals, wishing to return to the UK should apply for an EEA family permit a British diplomatic post abroad ..." Why are the giving out wrong or misleading information?

Sorry for the questions, I am trying to understand, and it really doesn't seem straightforward.

PeterM wrote:Hello,

thanks for your replies so far. There are however a few things I do not quite understand yet.

1) I know my wife is not a visa national, but when she is entering the UK, she is comming here to work. So being a non-visa national is not really of any help, because she cannot use the visitor route. Get to a border and you can enter under the EU law, in general you need to be traveling together and be able to prove that you are family members. Read article 5 of the directive.

2) To me it seems the CoA does not really prove anything? Someone could apply for it who has no right to live and work in the UK, and with the CoA get a 6-month free ticket. Nobody checked our application yet. In general, demonstrating the right to reside under EU rules is exceedingly simple. COA demonstrates that one has met these simple conditions.

3) Jambo says: "As your wife, she can travel together with you visa free in Europe." Okay, but what if she travels alone, without me? In general a non-visa national can have up to three months in Schengen, for example as long as they meet the conditions specified, insurance, sufficient resources, documents suitable for the next country of destination. With you these rules do not apply,basically she just needs to be with you. Do you see the difference?

4) UKBA wrote my wife a letter saying (after wa asked for our passports back): ""family members of an EEA national, who are not themselves EEA nationals, wishing to return to the UK should apply for an EEA family permit a British diplomatic post abroad ..." Why are the giving out wrong or misleading information? In general, visa nationals will need a new visa, this doesn't apply to you.

Sorry for the questions, I am trying to understand, and it really doesn't seem straightforward.

No problem. Responses above.

Have you read the directive 2004/38/EC. It's all pretty simple. If you haven't read it, please do so for your own benefit.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/Notice.do?mode ... words=null

PeterM wrote: 1) I know my wife is not a visa national, but when she is entering the UK, she is comming here to work. So being a non-visa national is not really of any help, because she cannot use the visitor route.

No one said she should enter as a tourist. She should enter as a spouse of a EEA national. The same way she entered with the EEA Family Permit. Having a Family Permit is not mandatory. The regulations allow family members of EEA national to prove their status at the border. There is no need to get entry clearance from the consulate beforehand.
The advantage of being non-visa national is the ability to board a flight and get to the borer. If you are visa national you can't get to the border so you need a Family Permit to be able to board a flight.

2) To me it seems the CoA does not really prove anything? Someone could apply for it who has no right to live and work in the UK, and with the CoA get a 6-month free ticket. Nobody checked our application yet.

The CoA is issued after initial check of the documents (for example checking that a passport, marriage certificate were submitted). Only if applied as married, the CoA would state eligibility to work. You are right that someone can try and abuse the system but employers are required to call the HO to verify the CoA when presented by the employee so this abuse can't last for long. If you plan to be illegal in the UK, you would probably not bother sending your passport to the HO to try and get a free ticket for a maximum of 6 months.

3) Jambo says: "As your wife, she can travel together with you visa free in Europe." Okay, but what if she travels alone, without me?

Well, that depends on her nationality. If she can travel to Schengen visa free, then she doesn't need a visa. If she does require visa for Schengen, she will need to apply for one.

4) UKBA wrote my wife a letter saying (after wa asked for our passports back): ""family members of an EEA national, who are not themselves EEA nationals, wishing to return to the UK should apply for an EEA family permit a British diplomatic post abroad ..." Why are the giving out wrong or misleading information?

Is this an exact quote of the letter ? "should apply" doesn't suggest you must apply. The reason they stated that is for visa nationals. They prefer to give an advice that fits all (even if not necessary for some nationals). In addition, the HO also prefer to have control on immigration and it is easier for them to refuse/delay applications if made in the home country than when someone shows at the border. It is practically, almost impossible to refuse entry under EEA regulations at the border.