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Surinder Singh route whilst pregnant

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:25 am
by xdaniix89
Hi everyone, havnt been on here in a while but we are starting to think about applying for the entry clearance soon so would really appreciate some help/advice. As the title says, Im a brit national, husband is non-eea and we recently found out I am pregnant. We already ahve one child together.
So as our situation has changed slightly I have a few new questions!!
I of course hope to find work asap in England and am confident my pregnancy wont affect that. I'll be around 5/6 months so still able to work. I'll also be registering as self-employed with a large cosmetics chain although that wont generate much income. We are aiming to apply for the 5year permit in January, 2months before the birth how interested are they going to be in future employment, if for example, I only have temporary part-time work? Do I even have to tell them I am pregnant?
As far as I know, if I've worked there long enough before baby is due end of March, I'll be eligable for Statutory Maternity Allowance and that that will cover me for the Family Permit application but what if I'm not eligable? The time I have to take off for the birth and recovery, will it be considered as time unemployed if I'm recieving no wages, no maternity pay or allowance? I ask this with permanent residence in mind over the 5year period I belive I will have to show all earnings? Also, incase the application is refused and we have to extend and then reapply after the babys born.

A friend whos husband was granted the entry clearance has said that the 5year application (for surinder singh applicants) has very little to do with your current employment and concentrates more again on what you did in the EU country before hand. Is this correct?

Sorry its a long one! If anyone has any experience with a similar case or has any links I would really appreciate it.
Thanks for reading!

Re: Surinder Singh route whilst pregnant

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:36 am
by Jambo
xdaniix89 wrote:A friend whos husband was granted the entry clearance has said that the 5year application (for surinder singh applicants) has very little to do with your current employment and concentrates more again on what you did in the EU country before hand. Is this correct?
Yes. There is no requirement to show economic activity once you return to the UK.

See more - UKBA finally acknowledge 'Eind' case!.

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:43 am
by xdaniix89
Oh ok! Thanks for the reply. That's good news! So is it really as simple as just re-submitting all my Greek papers? I mean, I have nothing to worry about? Sounds too good to be true!

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:48 am
by ruthie
Please allow me to ask a related question. In such a case, does it mean the partner would have to show proof of Comprehensive Medical Insurance?

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:51 am
by Jambo
xdaniix89 wrote:Oh ok! Thanks for the reply. That's good news! So is it really as simple as just re-submitting all my Greek papers? I mean, I have nothing to worry about? Sounds too good to be true!
Yes. We all love the EU ;-)

If you check the RC application form (EEA2), there is a section about Surinder Singh which states that the evidence required is of treaty rights in another EEA state.

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:52 am
by Jambo
ruthie wrote:Please allow me to ask a related question. In such a case, does it mean the partner would have to show proof of Comprehensive Medical Insurance?
No. CSI is not required in Surinder Singh cases.

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:53 am
by xdaniix89
Oh yes, I'd forgotten about this. So if I am unemployed, would my husband, son and I need insurance or just my husband? My son is a british national.

Also, have just found this for anyone who wants it in laymans terms like me!
Because EEA nationals have an initial three months right of residence in the UK, there is no requirement for the British national to be a qualified person on arrival. Therefore, an EEA family permit can be issued to the non-EEA national family member of a British national even if they are only visiting the UK with the British national before returning to the Member State where they are resident.

It does not matter if the only reason the British national went to another Member State was to exercise an economic Treaty right was so that he / she could come back to the UK with his / her family members under EC law.

The ECO should seek advice from ECCCAT where unsure about the decision to be taken in applying the Surinder Singh judgement.

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:55 am
by xdaniix89
Ok thanks Jambo, sorry posted before I saw your reply!

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:05 pm
by xdaniix89
I'm a bit confused now...on a different forum and advisor has told me that the 5 year application DOES rely on employment in the UK??

''The family permit application relies on what you have done in the EU country before applying. The 5 year residence card depends on what you are doing int he UK''

Can someone explain this to me...We get an entry clearance valid for 6months, then we apply for the Family Permit right? Valid for 5 years. She refers to it as a residence card. Is this different to the family permit. I'm getting mixed information now :(

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:13 pm
by Jambo
Victoria is wrong.

For Surinder Singh applications, what you need to do in the UK is to be present. Nothing else.

You first get a EEA Family Permit for 6 months which acts as an Entry Clearance. Then you apply for a 5 years Residence Card.

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:18 pm
by xdaniix89
I was going to post a link but wasn't sure if i should haha. Ok, thanks. It's very confusing when you dont fully understand all the jargon etc thanks again for the help :D

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:21 pm
by xdaniix89
Oh, so its 100% definite that I do not need to be working for the residence card??

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:21 pm
by Jambo
Read the Residence Card application form - EE2. In particular the guidance in Section 5 on page 11.

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:27 pm
by Jambo
xdaniix89 wrote:Oh, so its 100% definite that I do not need to be working for the residence card??
If you had followed the link I posted in my first response, you would have read the HO statement:
UKBA FOI response 23660 wrote:The UK Border Agency acknowledges the judgment in Eind and as a result there is
no requirement for UK nationals who seek to rely on the provisions of regulation 9 to
sponsor their family members under the Regulations to provide evidence of
employment or self-employment on their return to the UK.
It can't get more official than that !

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:30 pm
by xdaniix89
Ok thanks again. I did follow the link, Its all just a bit confusing!

Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:57 am
by xdaniix89
It seems on the other forum they were unaware the HO implemented Eind! Alot of people seem to be which is abit worrying! Hence all my confusion. Thank you for the correct information.

Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:01 am
by Jambo
Some people find it difficult to admit when they are proved wrong.

You now know where to go next time you have an immigration question ;-)

Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:17 pm
by xdaniix89
Yes they do! Can I ask one more question....My husband says he was told yesterday when enquiring about his Greek residency (he renews his permit every 2 years) that if he applies for long-term residency, 5 years, here in Greece he can go to the UK as a Greek national does? Is this true? I don;t believe it is, I could be wrong, but isn't residency just residency no matter how long it's for?

Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:44 pm
by Jambo
xdaniix89 wrote:Is this true?
It's not true. Long residence might give some privileges within the Schengen area (not even sure about that) but definitely has no impact on your status in the UK.

Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:30 pm
by xdaniix89
Thats what I thought. Have just read somewhere that if he gets it through being married to an EU national its only valid for Greece, not EU-wide/transferable.