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Hi there, it's been for a while my wife and I having family problems and now she want divorce and I can't hold her, and I'm also tired of this life, I need your opinions on the following please.
As some of you might already known my situation, we have married since October 2008(almost 4 years) my RC is until 07/2014. if we divorce now or before 5 yrs of marriage, what will happen to my visa?
A_ Do I have to apply for ROR, if I do apply, how long it takes and can I still go abroad and renter UK without problem?

B_When my visa runs out on 07/2014 can I apply for PR or not? would I need my EX wife passport and support as she will not cooperate with me.
Please guys, help me with your knowledge whether positive or negative,,,,I still appreciate.
Many thanks.

Which appeal are you waiting for?

Sorry to hear that spike. I hope you can patch things over with her. Have you lodged your appeal yet? Has she commenced with divorce procedure yet?

joshuaaubin wrote:Which appeal are you waiting for?

The appeal for PR, as on February I applied for PR based on 3yrs marriage+2yrs cohabitations but the HO staff simply refused me as my marriage is less than 5 years with right to appeal, so my lawyer has appealed but nothing heard yet!! it's been about 4 or 5 weeks waiting.

anp wrote:Sorry to hear that spike. I hope you can patch things over with her. Have you lodged your appeal yet? Has she commenced with divorce procedure yet?

I'm still waiting for appeal to hear something from court but still waiting, I want to finish with her!! im tired of accepting all the stress just because of VISA, but i don't want to loss my right to live here as that would be more stress!!!!

She hasn't started yet and we are still living in same house separate bedroom, but she is talking of divorce and want to prevent me of getting any visa(PR).

I suggest you try and get some help. Talk to a friend, a doctor, health professional to try to put things into perspective.

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:I suggest you try and get some help. Talk to a friend, a doctor, health professional to try to put things into perspective.

What do mean I must get help from them?!! to make her not go for divorce?!
I really don't mind divorce after all this headache.
I seen your good advice and knowledge in this forum, tell me how the ROR works, if we divorce after 4 years marriage and she exercises treaty right all this times, do I have to fill any forms or just send a cover letter and requested documents and how long does it take, do I have to send my RC and passport to HO, can I still go abroad while waiting for ROR, thanks a lot mate.

spike_UK wrote:I'm also tired of this life.

I'd read this and was a little worried for you to be honest.

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:

spike_UK wrote:I'm also tired of this life.

I'd read this and was a little worried for you to be honest.

It's ok, thanks for your concern mate, I really need your help and knowledge, as I said even if she go for divorce I wouldn't stop her as I'm tired of it, so I will same as rest of those people who gone through this stress, go for ROR if we divorce but I want to know what will happen to me when we divorce. once again thanks for help.

The details are in article 13 of directive 2004/38/EC.

For example if a non-EU family member divorce their EU spouse (presume spouse is living in accordance with the terms of the directive) and the marriage had lasted at least three years, including one year in the member state, then the non-EU family member can retain rights of residence. However, if they wish to attain PR in their own right, they would need to be a worker or self-employed person until they have lived in the member state for five years.

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:The details are in article 13 of directive 2004/38/EC.

For example if a non-EU family member divorce their EU spouse (presume spouse is living in accordance with the terms of the directive) and the marriage had lasted at least three years, including one year in the member state, then the non-EU family member can retain rights of residence. However, if they wish to attain PR in their own right, they would need to be a worker or self-employed person until they have lived in the member state for five years.

Can you please send me the article 13 link, I dont know where to get!!
We have lived and married for 4 yrs at least, so I guess I can retain my RC but how do i do that? do I need to fill any forms?
To get PR on my rights, you said 5 yrs to work in member of state, does this start from marriage date or start from my RC issued? many thanks mate.

Google is your friend, Spike.

http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&o ... 4%2F38%2FE

spike_UK wrote: We have lived and married for 4 yrs at least, so I guess I can retain my RC but how do i do that? do I need to fill any forms?

It sounds like it. You can either apply for another residence card or wait for PR. You would would actually retain the right of residence automatically.

Take care that you have evidence of your wife's treaty rights.

Divorce may take some time, depending on how you go about it. You don't retain rights of residence until actual divorce, before that you are a family member of EU national.

spike_UK wrote: To get PR on my rights, you said 5 yrs to work in member of state, does this start from marriage date or start from my RC issued? many thanks mate.

You need to have lived in the UK in accordance with the regulations for five continuous years. This can be a mixture of being a family member who exercised treaty rights and someone who retained right of residence. For the time spent as a person with retained rights of residence, non-EU nationals need to have been a self-sufficient person or a worker.

Example - 4 years living with EU spouse who worked in the UK prior to divorce (non-EU does not need to do anything special) followed by 1 year post divorce (now the non-EU must be a worker or self-sufficient) would meet the PR conditions.

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:

spike_UK wrote: To get PR on my rights, you said 5 yrs to work in member of state, does this start from marriage date or start from my RC issued? many thanks mate.

You need to have lived in the UK in accordance with the regulations for five continuous years. This can be a mixture of being a family member who exercised treaty rights and someone who retained right of residence. For the time spent as a person with retained rights of residence, non-EU nationals need to have been a self-sufficient person or a worker.

Example - 4 years living with EU spouse who worked in the UK prior to divorce (non-EU does not need to do anything special) followed by 1 year post divorce (now the non-EU must be a worker or self-sufficient) would meet the PR conditions.

That means, even I get divorce now, next year november which will be(4 yrs of marriage+1 yr separate) if i carry on working, which I'm, I can apply for PR, AM I right? I don't have to wait till 07/2014 that is when my RC expires.(of course meeting the requirments like she has worked through 4 yrs marriage and lived together).
thanks.

..

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:

spike_UK wrote: We have lived and married for 4 yrs at least, so I guess I can retain my RC but how do i do that? do I need to fill any forms?

It sounds like it. You can either apply for another residence card or wait for PR. You would would actually retain the right of residence automatically.

Take care that you have evidence of your wife's treaty rights.

Divorce may take some time, depending on how you go about it. You don't retain rights of residence until actual divorce, before that you are a family member of EU national.

What do you mean, You would would actually retain the right of residence automatically? so I don't have to send back my RC and passport to HO for retention stamp? I can just hold on to my RC until I apply for PR?
Please confirm it or correct me. Thanks

Take care that you have evidence of your wife's treaty rights.[/quote]

Do I have to keep all papers from the marriage date until divorce or just for 3 yrs? that is impossible, she already packed all her papers away( she doesn't want me to get that).
Directive, can you also share your knowledge please.
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Hi guys, my lawyer just rung me today and said I have hearing (court regarding my appeal) next Friday and we are about to separate soon, does my wife has to give any statement or even go with me to court? or can I go with out her?(presuming HO doesn't know about my situation).
Thanks for help.

If you are claiming you have a subsisting relationship with this woman, and seeking to claim right of Permanent Residence on the basis of your relationship with her, then it is only reasonable that she is at court by your side, don't you think ?

Obie wrote:If you are claiming you have a subsisting relationship with this woman, and seeking to claim right of Permanent Residence on the basis of your relationship with her, then it is only reasonable that she is at court by your side, don't you think ?

Of course, but if she not come with me then what!!

Then a judge will not be criticise for making inferences, which might be adverse to your case. Then again as we have advised, you may havd some hurdle to overcome down the line, which if i remember correctly, was seeking to claim that the time you were in a durable relationship with this woman should count towards PR.

If this woman is not there to be crossed examine about this period and the exact nature of your relationship, it make the job for the presenting officer pretty simple, really.

Try and reach agreement with your wife now that you will make divorce smooth for her and in return she will help you with evidence of exercising treaty rights until the date of decree absolute.
I was in the same situation but my ex was so irritating that we couldn't even initiate a conversation, let alone negotiation! at the end, I got fed up and left with no papers, only photocopies

Guerro wrote:Try and reach agreement with your wife now that you will make divorce smooth for her and in return she will help you with evidence of exercising treaty rights until the date of decree absolute.
I was in the same situation but my ex was so irritating that we couldn't even initiate a conversation, let alone negotiation! at the end, I got fed up and left with no papers, only photocopies

That is bad news, so what happened next? did you have RC at the time you finished, how long were you married for, and did you apply for ROR or wait for PR,,,,what happened? thanks

Obie wrote:Then a judge will not be criticise for making inferences, which might be adverse to your case. Then again as we have advised, you may havd some hurdle to overcome down the line, which if i remember correctly, was seeking to claim that the time you were in a durable relationship with this woman should count towards PR.

If this woman is not there to be crossed examine about this period and the exact nature of your relationship, it make the job for the presenting officer pretty simple, really.

Thanks Obie, I will try to talk to her but if it doesn't work I have no choice but to go alone.

Yes, I had RC at the time, we were married for 4 years and I lodged my ROR application 2 weeks ago with my original documents and her photocopies. So, fingers crossed