Immigrationboards.com

Hello to you all..

I have a question which may require a bit of mind bending, so I will try to clearly describe the situation my wife and I are in.

Firstly, our objective, is to understand if a) my wife has already acquired permanent residence, without us being aware of it, and b) if then she could apply directly for UK citizenship (yes, I am aware this is the EEA discussion, please read on).

I hold dual UK & other EU citizenship, and though I lived abroad earlier in my life, I moved to the UK nearly 20 years ago. I have never left for more than a 2 months since I became a resident here.

My wife arrived in the UK in 2006 on a dependent work permit from outside the EU but left her then husband when she met me. We were advised to transfer her to an EEA2 residential permit, as the extended family member of an EEA citizen.
We applied for it in 2007 and had to fight the HO through the courts to get them to give it to her. The EEA2 is due to expire shortly.

I recently discovered this forum and have been following some of the advice and information available here. I was interested to read the HO guidelines for EEA applications. In section 2 of this document:
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

I found the following:

"The following are eligible under Regulation 15 of the Immigration (EEA) Regulations
2006:
...
...
 A person who:
o Has resided in the UK (in accordance with the 2006 Regulations) for a
continuous period of 5 years; and
o Was, at the end of the period, a family member who has retained the
right of residence. "

My wife and I married at the end of 2011. At which point she was here for over 5 years continuously but on a different visa to the one she entered the country on. If we can show that I had "retained the right of residence" as and EEA citizen (incidentally what does ''retained the right of residence" translate to in plain english).

I have not kept personal records such as tenancy agreements, or bank statements back to early 2006, though I do have documents such as payslips from my employer and P60's. I do have payslips, and bank statements from early 2007 and tenancy agreements etc from mid 2008. Is that sufficient to show I have met the requirements for PR as an EEA citizen?
When my wife and I married, did she then gain PR because of the time she had remained in the UK? If so, can she apply directly for UK citizenship, if we can show the above?

Thanks for any advice, or thoughts anyone might have.

LegalAleean wrote:a) my wife has already acquired permanent residence, without us being aware of it

Most likely.

b) if then she could apply directly for UK citizenship

Yes.

"The following are eligible under Regulation 15 of the Immigration (EEA) Regulations
2006:
...
...
 A person who:
o Has resided in the UK (in accordance with the 2006 Regulations) for a
continuous period of 5 years; and
o Was, at the end of the period, a family member who has retained the
right of residence. "

Retaining rights of residence is for cases of divorce. In your wife's case the relevant regulation is Regulation 15(b).

My wife and I married at the end of 2011. At which point she was here for over 5 years continuously but on a different visa to the one she entered the country on. If we can show that I had "retained the right of residence" as and EEA citizen (incidentally what does ''retained the right of residence" translate to in plain english).

She will obtain PR status after 5 years under the regulations - 5 years after the RC was issued (as extended family member).

I have not kept personal records such as tenancy agreements, or bank statements back to early 2006, though I do have documents such as payslips from my employer and P60's. I do have payslips, and bank statements from early 2007 and tenancy agreements etc from mid 2008. Is that sufficient to show I have met the requirements for PR as an EEA citizen?

You will need to provide proof that cover 5 continous years.

In order for your wife to obtain PR status, you will need to have also obtained PR status. This can be proven by showing 5 continous years of exercising treaty rights. The 5 continous years don't need to be the last 5 years or match the years your wife has been been living in the UK. It would be simpler if these would be recent years but this is not a requirement. Your wife would need to provide proof she was resident in the UK for 5 years under the EEA regulations. The count started when her RC was issued.

To apply directly for naturalisartion, she will need to provide both your passports and evidence of your treaty rights. The application would be treated in 2 stages: first that she obtained PR (based on your EEA nationality and treaty rights) and then her naturalisation application would be handled as a spouse of BC (3 years of residence, less than 270 days of absence etc).

She might want to split the application into 2. First apply for confirmation of her PR status using form EEA4 and once granted immediately to apply as naturalisation as a spouse of BC. The upside is reducing risk if your case is not straight forward (EEA4 is only £55 while naturlation is £874). The downside is time (EEA4 can take upto 6 months) and cost (additional £55).

See more in Applying on grounds of Automatic permanent residence and also Q1 & Q5 in the Citizenship FAQs - Common Questions - Read before posting..

Thanks Jambo, thats is very helpful.

We had intended to do this in two steps, consistent with your advice. In the next couple of days we will be sending off the EEA4 application form, with two sets of supporting evidence. 1 to show I have achieved PR; 2. to demonstrate that my wife has been continuously resident here (and with me) for the 5 years of her RC.

Is it an issue that there is an overlap of the evidence? i.e. that some of the evidence for her claim is necessary for mine?

For my wife's evidence we have no issues.

For my PR claim, we are having difficulty being certain of what is acceptable evidence and when to start the 5 year period.
I have been through the form several times and I cannot figure out if showing the following is sufficient:
p60's April 2005, April 2006, April 2007, April 2008
Payslips from Jan 2006 - September 2008.
bank statements from March 2007 onward (I have up to the present).
Tenancy agreements from 2008 to the present.
I became a student in September 2008 (full-time), with a studentship grant that came with a 3 year residential requirement clause - in other words I wouldn't have got it, had I not been living and working in the UK for at least 3 years prior. I have a letter confirming my place on the course with details of the grant (but not the residential requirement). I have a letter confirming enrolment on the course dated end Sept 2008, then two letters from the University, dated mid 2010 and mid 2011, confirming that I am a registered student and details of my course and grant. I also have a letter from end 2013 confirming completion of my course. Since completing my course I have not signed on as looking for work, as I have been finishing some of the research I did for my course, but in an unpaid capacity.. I do not want to bring this into consideration of HO, because that just complicates things...

The concern we have is to do with comprehensive medical cover. I had and EHIC card from end 2006 - end 2011. I would like to show that I achieved PR before the EHIC card ran out, because we didn't renew it until recently. With the above, what is the earliest date, I could reasonably expect HO to accept that I achieved PR?

I suspect the EHIC you refer to is a UK issued one. If this is the case, it doesn't help you. It needs to be a non UK one. The UK one only covers you abroad (and in fact is based b your NHS eligibility. You are trying to prove you have additonal insurance).

Did you work in the years before 2005? Without CSI, your student years might not count as treaty rights.

Yes, EHIC cards in question are issued by the UK. We will be giving NHS cards as advice I have been given suggests that is sufficient. I asked the immigration solicitor who represented my wife for the EEA2 application and in the tribunal.. he told me that it was a grey area and that immigration judges are finding against the HO in cases where the rejection is on that basis. This is because the CSC clause in the EEA rules was not envisaged for countries such as the UK with the NHS - was what he said. In the event that my wife's EEA4 application is rejected, he will take her case to tribunal for us.

I am in the rather stupid position of having been a resident in the UK for nearly 20 years and not being able to show much more than I stated earlier towards employment. I did a full time undergraduate degree, worked for 2 years full-time from 2000-2002. At the end of 2002 I enrolled on a part-time post-graduate degree, which I finished at the end of 2006.

From early 2003 - mid 2006 I worked between 20-28 hrs a week, and from mid 2006 - 2008, I worked 40 hours a week. I have already achieved the requirements for PR as an EEA national , many times over, of that I am certain. However, I have no records of employment before 2005 - that too just a P60, which should really be proof of economic activity for the 12 months 2004-2005, but I don't know how the HO see it. I have transcripts from my undergraduate and post-graduate courses and the odd piece of paper work from the university where I did my post-graduate degree. Other than that, I have not much else of value as officially acceptable records.

You should be able to get HMRC emplent records for years you don't have P60s.

Your solicitor seems to understand EEA immigration law which is already a positive sign.

Another angle to explore is to prove you have obtained PR based on your parents activities. Upto age 21, you are considered a family member so if one of the your parents (I assume they are EEA national as well) worked for 5 years, you have obtained PR through them.

In any case, you should be able to prove you have PR. just need to get evidence to prove it.

Parental route is not an option in my case.

I wrote off to HMRC for emplnt history from 2000-2009 (I figure that they can't argue with my PR claim if I show a longer period).

Can a credit report from either or both credit agencies (experian or equifax) be used as proof of residence to support HMRC record?

You can use credit report but I would not worry too much about additional proof of residence. If the employment history from HMRC shows you worked, then that can also serve as proof of residence. I don't see the case worker accepting that you worked but then ask for proof of presence in the UK during that time.

Hi All,

I want to thank Jambo and all others on this forum for their advice and help in my immigration matter.

Using the advice and guidance I received, especially from Jambo, the application for PR was successful. HO processed and returned the passport, with PR, in under 2 months.

Again thank you. Forums and notice boards like this are above else, what makes the internet a great asset to humanity. I cannot truly express my gratitude for the time and availability of your expertise.

LegalAleean out.

Congratulations!