Immigrationboards.com

Hello everyone!

I would be really grateful for anybody's help as this EEA-route is proving far more difficult than I could have imagined.
Let me state the problem...

I am currently living in the US, and am a UK citizen having been born and bred in Northern Ireland up until about 2 years ago. My husband of over 1 and a half years is American.

In January this year I became pregnant and, after already considering moving back to my house in Northern Ireland before that occurred, we made up our minds definitely to do that from then on. We planned to have the baby in the US in October/November and then return once he/she was about 6 months old. My husband worked out a plan with his company so that he could carry on working for them but just doing it remotely by computer and take a pay-cut for not being able to do all his duties as before.

However, since that plan, we had had terrible medical care during my pregnancy. So much, that I no longer feel confident of giving birth here whatsoever and we are desperate to go back to Northern Ireland as soon as possible.

Time is now critical as soon it will be very uncomfortable and difficult for me to travel in my advanced, pregnant state!

We always planned to use the Surinder Singh route, as it seemed a lot easier and quicker. Also, I'm not sure we would be economically able to go through all the requirements for the UK visa route (yeah, thanks British government - I, being British, can't come home with my husband to live in a house I pay a lot of property tax on each year, but everyone else from the EU union is welcome with open arms!) Plus moving to the South of Ireland wouldn't be too difficult for us.

The problem is I will be the one having to meet the "Employed, self-employed, student, self-sufficient) criteria being the EU citizen, and I will be in no state to do any of those things.

We could either:
1. Arrive in the South of Ireland (the only way we would be arriving back into the British Isles), and then travel straight to Northern Ireland and stay until the baby is born (my husband wouldn't need a visa for a 6 month stay as he's from the US). Until then, live off our savings. Then go to do our stay in the South and exercise my treaty rights.
Or:
2. Arrive in the South, rent a house there as soon as possible, start exercising my treaty rights right away and just travel back to the North for birth of our child.

But, either way, I will be in no state to be employed - either heavily pregnant or with a newborn baby. I may be able to sell a bit of artwork from time to time (I'm an artist), but it will only be a few euros/pounds and I won't be able to say I'm working or can fund myself and husband from it.

Are there any suggestions anybody has as to what we could do?

Once we leave, we won't ever be going back to the US as we will be giving up our home there and handing it back to the bank due to negative equity.

So, this move and being allowed to end up in Northern Ireland has to work!

Please, please, please, can anybody help us and tell us how this can work out?

Thank-you for your help.

No one have any suggestions to help me out?

Be wary as you you've been away from UK so long you may be required to pay for the birth.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/healt ... om-abroad/

I should be okay, Wanderer. At least, I'm hoping so.
I have kept up my house in Northern Ireland, been paying rates on it all this time I've been away, and no-one really knows I've been away.
Also, I'm coming home as someone who is now taking up permanent residence again (well, for the first plan to live in N.I. until the baby arrives and then look into moving to the South. I do not need to tell them that though, so for their reference I'm just coming home to live).

Presumably you have thought about whether you should rely on your entitlement to Irish Citizenship and give up your British citizenship to rely on EC treaty rights in the UK without doing surinder singh? Obviously (and particularly in the NI context) you would have to be sure about such a step.

As regards your idea about moving first to the Republic of Ireland to utilise EC Treaty rights, I do have one suggestion; you can employ your husband to assist you in establishing a business of which you would be the proprietor and he would be the employee.

Thank-you for your reply, el patron.

The giving up of my British Citizenship (I've never had anything other than a British passport so haven't claimed the dual citizenship option in the past) is a last resort. I would really prefer not to have to go down that route unless all other options are exhausted, but if it was that or have to leave then I'd do it.

The suggestion to set up a business is a good one I hadn't really thought of! Do you know how successful it would have to be in order to be accepted? I mean, if I set up a website/ try to sell a service or product and no-one is interested, does that still mean I'm technically self-employed even if it has been really unsuccessful? And would that conflict with my husband's other work (the guaranteed wage from his previous employers here in the States which we would not want to give up as it would be a definite weekly income rather than a purely speculative wage from a self-employed enterprise)?

bluebell555 wrote:Thank-you for your reply, el patron.

The giving up of my British Citizenship (I've never had anything other than a British passport so haven't claimed the dual citizenship option in the past) is a last resort. I would really prefer not to have to go down that route unless all other options are exhausted, but if it was that or have to leave then I'd do it.

The suggestion to set up a business is a good one I hadn't really thought of! Do you know how successful it would have to be in order to be accepted? I mean, if I set up a website/ try to sell a service or product and no-one is interested, does that still mean I'm technically self-employed even if it has been really unsuccessful? And would that conflict with my husband's other work (the guaranteed wage from his previous employers here in the States which we would not want to give up as it would be a definite weekly income rather than a purely speculative wage from a self-employed enterprise)?

Using employment as a baseline, normally if you can evidence that employment is genuine and effective it counts as exercising treaty rights. Case-law from the European Court has held as little as 10-12 hours per week as counting as genuine and effective, the UK look for employees to have been earning £156 (or thereabouts) per week for the work to be accepted as genuine and effective. I do not see why this criteria for genuine and effective employment should not be similarly applicable to self-employment in ROI.

I think it just depends if hubby is happy working for you and you getting all the accolades of success as the business owner as a result of his graft as a mere employee!

el patron wrote:

bluebell555 wrote:Thank-you for your reply, el patron.

The giving up of my British Citizenship (I've never had anything other than a British passport so haven't claimed the dual citizenship option in the past) is a last resort. I would really prefer not to have to go down that route unless all other options are exhausted, but if it was that or have to leave then I'd do it.

The suggestion to set up a business is a good one I hadn't really thought of! Do you know how successful it would have to be in order to be accepted? I mean, if I set up a website/ try to sell a service or product and no-one is interested, does that still mean I'm technically self-employed even if it has been really unsuccessful? And would that conflict with my husband's other work (the guaranteed wage from his previous employers here in the States which we would not want to give up as it would be a definite weekly income rather than a purely speculative wage from a self-employed enterprise)?

Using employment as a baseline, normally if you can evidence that employment is genuine and effective it counts as exercising treaty rights. Case-law from the European Court has held as little as 10-12 hours per week as counting as genuine and effective, the UK look for employees to have been earning £156 (or thereabouts) per week for the work to be accepted as genuine and effective. I do not see why this criteria for genuine and effective employment should not be similarly applicable to self-employment in ROI.

I think it just depends if hubby is happy working for you and you getting all the accolades of success as the business owner as a result of his graft as a mere employee!

Hubby will be happy enough....I think

However, I'm worried that, especially after the birth, I will be unable to establish and run such a successful business that it makes any money at all, let alone about 156 pounds a week! I certainly won't have much time with a newborn baby. As I would be running a business based on my talents (arts and crafts) I can't rely on my hubby being able to help too much.

Is there any other solution should this option fail? Is there any way to use the St Prix case to be classed as a worker for Irish purposes (and also to show I was exercising my treaty rights there when I go back to the UK) until such times that I can devout time to a self-employment business?
I have no desire to claim benefits as we would have enough money to live on through my non-eu husband's wage, however I really want to avoid having to declare myself self-sufficient because it seems so much more difficult to prove and also sickness insurance would need to be obtained (would that be required for me and a British baby too....or just my non-eu husband?)