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hello friends am Kingsley, Join this site today, i don't real know how the site goes but i have a few question which i need a help or advice. i have a three years stay in itay and i came to uk here, and i have a wife and two kids, my wife is an European from poland. i make an application for residency card but before i make the application the visa or three years stay i have from italy have expired for at least two months, i submitted the passport and the identity card along with my application though they have expired for two month like i said. after waiting for six months for decisions they end up give me refusal on the ground that i don't have valid national passport or identity. at the present i don't have visa and my solicitor said the only way forward is to apply for judicial review. please friends what advice can you people give to me and do i have chance to archive some thing from the jr? am tired can't even go back to italy to renew my visa
please i welcome any piece of advice thanks

hello friends am Kingsley, Join this site today, i don't real know how the site goes but i have a few question which i need a help or advice. i have a three years stay in itay and i came to uk here, and i have a wife and two kids, my wife is an European from poland. i make an application for residency card but before i make the application the visa or three years stay i have from italy have expired for at least two months, i submitted the passport and the identity card along with my application though they have expired for two month like i said. after waiting for six months for decisions they end up give me refusal on the ground that i don't have valid national passport or identity. at the present i don't have visa and my solicitor said the only way forward is to apply for judicial review. please friends what advice can you people give to me and do i have chance to archive some thing from the jr? am tired can't even go back to italy to renew my visa
please i welcome any piece of advice thanks

iketeddy wrote:hello friends am Kingsley, Join this site today, i don't real know how the site goes but i have a few question which i need a help or advice. i have a three years stay in itay and i came to uk here, and i have a wife and two kids, my wife is an European from poland. i make an application for residency card but before i make the application the visa or three years stay i have from italy have expired for at least two months, i submitted the passport and the identity card along with my application though they have expired for two month like i said. after waiting for six months for decisions they end up give me refusal on the ground that i don't have valid national passport or identity. at the present i don't have visa and my solicitor said the only way forward is to apply for judicial review. please friends what advice can you people give to me and do i have chance to archive some thing from the jr? am tired can't even go back to italy to renew my visa
please i welcome any piece of advice thanks

Can you get a new passport?

i can get passport but am concern because i seek aslyum in italy atomatically am not alowe to go to nigeria because of my aslum.

Do you need to go to Nigeria to get a passport? You could probably get one from the Nigeria High Commission.

vinny wrote:Do you need to go to Nigeria to get a passport? You could probably get one from the Nigeria High Commission.

Isn't he required to have a visa before his passport will be renewed?

Strictly speaking, his rights to reside in the UK are automatic, originating from being a family member of a an EEA national with a right of residence in the UK.

This Case may assist in some respect, and may not assist in other respect.

I think if they gave reason within the meaning of Regulation 29A and the SSHD refused to engage, then there may be a reason for JR, otherwise, I don't see what success could be derived from a JR, in light of the caselaw and the wording of Regulation 29A, where it appears no reasons were provided as to why a valid passport could not be produced.

@ obie, i just read the reply you post. please in which way i can use this Case to help my self, is this case the same with my case, i have a solicitor hope she know what she is doing, they might take me to nigeria if i go to get nigeria passport, beside that i face prosecution if i go back to nigeria.,please do i need to show my solicitor this case?, what do you think i should do now

It was incumbent on the lawyer to explain you case and the reason why a valid passport cannot be produced.

In the absence of an explanation regarding regulation 29A, a JR will not achieve much .

vinny wrote:Strictly speaking, his rights to reside in the UK are automatic, originating from being a family member of a an EEA national with a right of residence in the UK.

HO evidently apply a 4-stage test in applications for RC and without adequate proof of identity OP will fail at 'stage 1':
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... s_v3_0.pdf
- page 12

Vinny is very correct, and their is legal backing for her position.

You havev provided a guidance , which is not even consistent with the law , to criticise vinny's position.

That guidance is not even compliant with regulation 29A, or makes provision for it.

Strange.

Obie wrote:Vinny is very correct, and their is legal backing for her position.

You havev provided a guidance , which is not even consistent with the law , to criticise vinny's position.

That guidance is not even compliant with regulation 29A, or makes provision for it.

Strange.

There is no criticism, positive or negative, here, simply an illumination of published HO procedure.
The guidance is in the public domain.

I made no comment on whether such a workaday type of guidance is consistent with Law.

It does however expose, to some degree, HO caseworker procedure, their working practice &, by extension, HO mindset.

The HO clearly does not implement the law by default;
for example, it does not issue RCs (or any other document) without (their) due process & adequate evidence even where there is an entitlement enshrined in law.

Sharing the guidance caseworkers use may go some way to explaining (or removing the strangeness of):
a) how a HO caseworker has refused OP's application despite the panoply of Immigration Regulations
&
b) in particular, how this could have happened regardless of regulation 29A;
the guidance simply ignores it.

OP appears to make no reference to being invited to prove identity by other means (either by HO or by advisor).
An OP with an advisor familiar with such guidance (who was presented with expired or invalid passports/id cards) could have 'headed that one off at the pass' ahead of time.

So I am doing nothing more or less than other posters, namely discussing - which is hardly strange in a public internet discussion forum.

You cited Vinny ' s post, you said op was bound to fail at stage 1. It is a logical deduction that you were seeking to challenge vinny's views which is unimpeachable.

Vinny made a distinction between the right of residence and the right to a Residence Card evidencing the existence of the Right of Residence, that Vinny correctly stated exist.

By citing thr post and seeking to put an alternative view, it appears you were seeking to challenge it, and this is what I found most strange.

Vinny is a very experienced and knowledgeable person , and notwithstanding the fact that we all make mistake, I do take a deep breath before questioning a view that is expressed by Vinny.

Obie wrote:You cited Vinny ' s post, you said op was bound to fail at stage 1. It is a logical deduction that you were seeking to challenge vinny views which is unimpeachable.

Vinny made a distinction between the right of residence and the right to a Residence Card evidencing the existence of the Residence that Vinny correctly stated exist.

By citing thr post and seeking to put an alternative view, it appears you were seeking to challenge it, and this is what I found most strange.

Vinny is a very experienced and knowledgeable person , and notwithstanding the fact that we all make mistake, I do take a deep breath before questioning a view that is expressed by Vinny.

It doesn't really get this OP his RC card but what I said was

HO evidently apply a 4-stage test...

You ascribe an intent far from my intent, which is actually explanation of HO behaviour not criticism of anyone's view.

The published guidance can be used to explain caseworker behaviour very well.
It makes it predictable.

It is the HO caseworker that questions anyone's view if that view is driven by law/regulations;
that is because their simplistic 4-stage RC script cannot & does not encapsulate all of that law.

The content of the guidance shows HO has such a script;
if a caseworker mechanically runs through the script, checking the outcome at each step, applications will pass or fail mechanically.

If an application happens to fail at the first stage (in this case an identity check) then, as per the script, no other consideration is given.

This matches the observed behaviour of HO in this case, as originally stated by OP.

am new in uk, so don't real understand every thing here. now they refuse me are they going to take me back, if they will do what about my wife and kids what will happen to them, i can't afford to leave my family. please some one should tell me what to do.

I just don't believe the JR will reap much fruit.

As i am not sure the lawyer addressed Regulation 29A.

However you will not face removal.

obie thank you for the encouragement and the advice, the truth is that we just receive the refusal few days ago, and she wrote me by said because i don't have visa i can't appear so there for the only thing she can do is to do jr. i got appointment we her nest two week, i don't know what to tell her but few of my friends ask me to go and apply for Nigeria passport but my concern like i said is that if end up and conclude to send me back the will send me to Nigeria not Italy any more. i presented to them the passport and the id issued to me by the Italians they only expired two mouths before my application to the HO, obviously i can not go to Italy to renew it. if through my solicitor i tell them that i can not go to Nigeria because i face prosecutor over there and that is why i seek asylum in Italy, would listen to that? would they listen if i tell them the reason why i could not provide a valid passport or id was because i face prosecutor in nigerian and that was the reason i was given stay in italy, is that going to make any changes? please tell tell me

You could have sought refugee travel document. Are you a recognised refugee in Italy, or granted Humanitarian protection there, and have evidence of this.

well, italians have three stage, one is refugee which is five years, the other is subsidiary and that is three years which is the one i have, and the last one was humanitarian that is one year. @ obie this are the three stages of recognizance status in italy, hope you understand?

iketeddy wrote:well, italians have three stage, one is refugee which is five years, the other is subsidiary and that is three years which is the one i have, and the last one was humanitarian that is one year. @ obie this are the three stages of recognizance status in italy, hope you understand?

Yes i am conversant with the 3 level of protection under the Qualfication
Directive, which is part of EU law.

The difficulty for me is, how can you claim that you are in fear of persecution of Nigeria, and using their passport all these years.

A convention travel document may have been appropriate.

i have not been using nigeria passport,i don't even have it. i was issued traveling document by the italians, A convention travel document is a blue passport and id but like i said the gone expired with two months befor i put in my application

Then there is a good prospect of success.

How did you enter the UK?

well, to be sincerer i came by truck from france, i never come with visa

Have you spoken to the lawyer?