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Wrongful Denial of Boarding by Easyjet to UK
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:05 am
by jengis
Dear All
I need your help. I am an Indian and I am married to a Dutch Woman. We live in Germany and I have a Valid German Residence Card. Last month 15th I was denied boarding by Easyjet to UK. I produced the following documents along with my wife. It was for a short visit for an important meeting in UK.
1. Our Valid Passports
2. My marriage Certificate.
3. My German Residency card
4. A letter received from UK Immigration that I can travel to UK without a Visa (or even a Family permit).
I am quite clear that the UK has amended its rules about Germany and Estonia Residence Cards in 2004 and it amended its rules with regard to all the EU residence cards this year in may.
To our enquiry, Easyjet replied that I had travel document problem and that I need to contact UK Immigration (it is funny that I already did that and produced the confirmation with my boarding documents itself.)
I can see that Easyjet is truly at fault. of course, I was humiliated by facial abuse by their boarding staff.
I am just not looking for compensation that has been prescribed (250 euros+ so and so). What are my legal options to sue the Easyjet for violation of the law?
All help needed. My advance thanks.
Re: Wrongful Denial of Boarding by Easyjet to UK
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:13 am
by secret.simon
The query is likely more relevant to the EEA Route forums than the family members forum. Could the mods look at moving the thread?
Re: Wrongful Denial of Boarding by Easyjet to UK
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:37 am
by vinny
Re: Wrongful Denial of Boarding by Easyjet to UK
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:49 am
by Obie
This is a clear cut case of denied boarding and OP is entitled damages for the denied boarding and facial harassment they endured.
Shameful.
Re: Wrongful Denial of Boarding by Easyjet to UK
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:46 am
by Casa
A few years ago before my husband had BC, travelling back to the UK on his own following a short visit to Spain, he almost missed his flight as Easyjet were denying boarding due to the check-in staff not understanding the relevance of an ILR visa!
Re: Wrongful Denial of Boarding by Easyjet to UK
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:29 am
by Wanderer
Easyjet are surely within their rights to board/not to board who they like bearing in mind they are liable to be fined for landing passengers with incorrect papers.
"13.2.1 Travel Documents
You are responsible for obtaining and must possess and have available for presentation as required all travel documents (including Your Confirmation Document) and all entry and exit, health, medical and other documents required by any applicable laws, regulations, orders, demands or requirements of the countries to be flown from and into. Subject to any applicable passenger rights pursuant to any international or domestic laws or regulations to the contrary, We reserve the right to refuse carriage to any Passenger we reasonably believe has not complied with, or whose documents do not comply with, such applicable laws, regulations, orders, demands or requirements."
Difficult for both the airline staff and the airline passenger to know all the applicable laws, airline T&C's usually cover them in situations like these, leaves the passenger high and dry I'm afraid.
Re: Wrongful Denial of Boarding by Easyjet to UK
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:45 am
by vinny
jengis wrote:I produced the following documents along with my wife. It was for a short visit for an important meeting in UK.
...
4. A letter received from UK Immigration that I can travel to UK without a Visa (or even a Family permit).
Re: Wrongful Denial of Boarding by Easyjet to UK
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 11:02 am
by Obie
Precisely.
Not sure why Wanderer thinks that Easyget are within their rights to denied boarding to a person who is entitled to board a flight.
One can only imagine how wanderer would have felt, whether he would think an airliner was within its right to refuse him boarding, with his British passport.
Re: Wrongful Denial of Boarding by Easyjet to UK
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 11:16 am
by Wanderer
A letter could be a forgery, it's not like a passport is it? Obvs I'm not implying OP did this!
Imagine if you were a one-man private charter company and a passenger turned up with a piece of paper and no passport. Would you board that person and risk a fine plus the costs of detaining and returning the passenger?
I think EasyJet are quite with their rights here given their T&C's.
Re: Wrongful Denial of Boarding by Easyjet to UK
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 11:20 am
by Obie
It looks like you have not read the post at all, and things like this kind of winds me up.
The OP said, they presented their passport and Residence Card issued to her husband in Germany, which provides for a visa exemption, and a letter from the British Embassy, confirming that the spouse is entitled to travel visa free.
In light of all of that, why are you saying this?
Re: Wrongful Denial of Boarding by Easyjet to UK
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 11:26 am
by Wanderer
Obie wrote:It looks like you have not read the post at all, and things like this kind of winds me up.
The OP said, the presented their passport and Residence Card issued to her husband in Germany, which provides for a visa category, and a letter from the British Embassy, confirming that the spouse is entitled to travel visa free.
In light of all of that, why are you saying this?
You're right, I misread, apologies to all, ignore my input
Re: Wrongful Denial of Boarding by Easyjet to UK
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 11:58 am
by secret.simon
To the OP:
Would you know if the Residence Card issued to you was an Article 10 card (I presume so) or was it a domestic residence card under German law?
May I suggest that rather than seeking monetary damages, which the cases referred to by vinny suggest would be minimal (about £1400 for a couple), that you request a court imposed and supervised training course for Easyjet staff regarding EEA regulations & documents. Given that they fly mainly to European destinations, you would think that that is already the case, but as your case shows, that is a false assumption.
Re: Wrongful Denial of Boarding by Easyjet to UK
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:36 pm
by Obie
Just out of interest, do you think the training will be an appropriate remedy for the facial harassment that the OP said he faced from the officials?
In my experience, airline have a handbook that they consult in the event of uncertainty on travel visa requirements.
I suspect those officials may have consulted it, but the colour of OP'S skin was more of an irritation to them that the so call travel documents issue.
Re: Wrongful Denial of Boarding by Easyjet to UK
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:01 pm
by secret.simon
My work manager, who is African, told me that being Asian is the new black.
And to some extent it is true. I likely share the same shade of skin and used to exercise a similar passport to the OP's. And I have been subject to "random" security checks at airports. The way I see it, I can't help it that most suspected terrorists are as good-looking as me. And I have absolutely no interest in fast-forwarding to the other world as yet, so I go along with it.
On the other hand, whichever passport I held, I have never had issues with the port or airline staff and I have been to a fair few countries in Western Europe by sea, air and rail.
facial harassment is harder to prove and not really the topic for these forums. I would suggest that for the purposes of these forums, we confine ourselves to the issue that the OP was not allowed to travel on legitimate travel documents.
Casa's intervention suggests that there may be a genuine lack of understanding of EU & UK travel documents among Easyjet staff and that training, supervised by and answerable to a court, would benefit a far wider pool of people that just the OP himself, whose monetary recompense would likely be negligible.
Re: Wrongful Denial of Boarding by Easyjet to UK
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:12 pm
by Casa
Wanderer wrote:Obie wrote:It looks like you have not read the post at all, and things like this kind of winds me up.
The OP said, the presented their passport and Residence Card issued to her husband in Germany, which provides for a visa category, and a letter from the British Embassy, confirming that the spouse is entitled to travel visa free.
In light of all of that, why are you saying this?
You're right, I misread, apologies to all, ignore my input
Multi-tasking again Wanderer?
Re: Wrongful Denial of Boarding by Easyjet to UK
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:23 pm
by Obie
Well the statistic clearly shows that the experience of Black and Asian in UK is not the same. Notwithstanding that so call anti terrorism issue, blacks are still more likely to be stopped and searched by police than Asian.
I know Asian go through a lot too. However that is not the purpose of this thread and I don't wish to dwell on it.
The OP said in his post, that facial abuse was levelled at him. That in my view is wrong. It is very easy to prove as OP heard the language that was used on him.
That to me is wrong, and no individual should face that in circumstances where they have the right travel document.
The airline made no effort to check or enquire. That seems wrong in my view, and I empathise with OP. He should be entitled to reparation and must try and seek it. If they staff that humiliated OP are not punished , such conducts will continue.
They could simply had denied boarding, but facial abuse and humiliating OP, appears to be taking things to a new level.
Re: Wrongful Denial of Boarding by Easyjet to UK
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:32 pm
by secret.simon
Obie wrote:It is very easy to prove as OP heard the language that was used on him.
I am sure that that would not meet the burden of proof if the OP is the only one stating that he suffered facial abuse. There would presumably need to be corroborating proof.
jengis wrote:of course, I was humiliated by facial abuse by their boarding staff.
The way I read it, I think the OP meant facial profiling as opposed to racially abusive language. If there was such language, that would be a criminal matter for the German authorities, not a mere civil matter.
I do not condone abuse, either facial or on other grounds, and I would urge the OP to take the matter to the German police rather than merely sue for damages.
Re: Wrongful Denial of Boarding by Easyjet to UK
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:24 pm
by jengis
Thank you, Vinny. This case history has made few points quite clear to me.
1. That Denied Boarding covers more aspect than what is has been presumed.
2. Once you check-in, the Airport becomes NOT a NO MAN'S LAND for passengers but IT HAS TO BE MANNED BY THE CARRIERS/ carriers responsibility.
3. Though a Carrier has complied with all its rules to which the passenger has agreed to, there is the rule of "Superior Protection To The Passengers' and that carriers are liable.
I do understand from this case that carriers can not simply Deny boarding to passengers citing their terms and conditions alone. They have more responsibilities with regard to their passengers.
Thanks again.
Re: Wrongful Denial of Boarding by Easyjet to UK
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:49 pm
by Wanderer
Casa wrote:Wanderer wrote:Obie wrote:It looks like you have not read the post at all, and things like this kind of winds me up.
The OP said, the presented their passport and Residence Card issued to her husband in Germany, which provides for a visa category, and a letter from the British Embassy, confirming that the spouse is entitled to travel visa free.
In light of all of that, why are you saying this?
You're right, I misread, apologies to all, ignore my input
Multi-tasking again Wanderer?
Hungover....
I was up the Old British Queen last night. Then he left so I went out for a few pints....
I'll get me coat....
Re: Wrongful Denial of Boarding by Easyjet to UK
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:29 pm
by jengis
Obie wrote:Just out of interest, do you think the training will be an appropriate remedy for the facial harassment that the OP said he faced from the officials?
In my experience, airline have a handbook that they consult in the event of uncertainty on travel visa requirements.
I suspect those officials may have consulted it, but the colour of OP'S skin was more of an irritation to them that the so call travel documents issue.
Well, every airline has a handbook and even the TIMATIC. In my case, nothing has been referred to. The girl in charge of the boarding counter simply said NO to my explanation as if she is the UK Queen. You won't believe it if I say that was it.
And all these happened on the first day evening 10 pm exact. We stayed there and went to meet the supervisor the next day, to get a chance to explain our cause. The Sup was never there from morning to evening till 3.30 pm and the same girl who denied me boarding came back to the counter again.
When I asked for a written confirmation, she said, "why do you want it?".
"I am the victim and I need a proof"
"Even if I give, you can never see London", she blasted.
"It is fine. London is not my destiny. But give me in writing whatever you want to say"
"go to UK and get it, if possible. I will never give"
So that was it.
I have no way of proving what she said. My wife was in tears. We simply left.
Re: Wrongful Denial of Boarding by Easyjet to UK
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:39 pm
by jengis
secret.simon wrote:To the OP:
Would you know if the Residence Card issued to you was an Article 10 card (I presume so) or was it a domestic residence card under German law?
Yes, the residence card issued to me is an Article 10. It has the phrase "RESIDENCE CARD OF A FAMILY MEMBER OF A UNION CITIZEN", as demanded by the UK Government.
.
secret.simon wrote:May I suggest that rather than seeking monetary damages, which the cases referred to by vinny suggest would be minimal (about £1400 for a couple), that you request a court imposed and supervised training course for Easyjet staff regarding EEA regulations & documents. Given that they fly mainly to European destinations, you would think that that is already the case, but as your case shows, that is a false assumption.
Well, I could not get the point clearly. Do you want me to request the court imposed supervised training for Easyjet staff instead of demanding compensation?
Re: Wrongful Denial of Boarding by Easyjet to UK
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:40 pm
by Wanderer
jengis wrote:Obie wrote:Just out of interest, do you think the training will be an appropriate remedy for the facial harassment that the OP said he faced from the officials?
In my experience, airline have a handbook that they consult in the event of uncertainty on travel visa requirements.
I suspect those officials may have consulted it, but the colour of OP'S skin was more of an irritation to them that the so call travel documents issue.
Well, every airline has a handbook and even the TIMATIC. In my case, nothing has been referred to. The girl in charge of the boarding counter simply said NO to my explanation as if she is the UK Queen. You won't believe it if I say that was it.
And all these happened on the first day evening 10 pm exact. We stayed there and went to meet the supervisor the next day, to get a chance to explain our cause. The Sup was never there from morning to evening till 3.30 pm and the same girl who denied me boarding came back to the counter again.
When I asked for a written confirmation, she said, "why do you want it?".
"I am the victim and I need a proof"
"Even if I give, you can never see London", she blasted.
"It is fine. London is not my destiny. But give me in writing whatever you want to say"
"go to UK and get it, if possible. I will never give"
So that was it.
I have no way of proving what she said. My wife was in tears. We simply left.
Just as a matter of interest, was the EJ employee at departure end British? I ask because whilst I know there is beloved everywhere, UK seems to have buried this practice more than most, and you'd think anyone working for a company that moves people from country to country would appreciate diversity. Also I've seen some terrible beloved in Germany when we lived there, my better half being Russian, often in inexplicable circumstances, namely my better half alone taking a taxi from Hamburger Flughaven, taxi driver gave her a torrent of anti-Russian abuse.
Re: Wrongful Denial of Boarding by Easyjet to UK
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:48 pm
by jengis
Wanderer wrote:Easyjet are surely within their rights to board/not to board who they like bearing in mind they are liable to be fined for landing passengers with incorrect papers.
"13.2.1 Travel Documents
You are responsible for obtaining and must possess and have available for presentation as required all travel documents (including Your Confirmation Document) and all entry and exit, health, medical and other documents required by any applicable laws, regulations, orders, demands or requirements of the countries to be flown from and into. Subject to any applicable passenger rights pursuant to any international or domestic laws or regulations to the contrary, We reserve the right to refuse carriage to any Passenger we reasonably believe has not complied with, or whose documents do not comply with, such applicable laws, regulations, orders, demands or requirements."
Difficult for both the airline staff and the airline passenger to know all the applicable laws, airline T&C's usually cover them in situations like these, leaves the passenger high and dry I'm afraid.
Dear wanderer, Please refer to the post by Vinny in the beginning and my reply to his post above.
" 'The Superior protection to passengers' rule can prevail over the Airlines rules"
Once I have checked in, it is the responsibility of Airlines to see me board the flight (At least they should be able to prove that they tried)
And I would request you to check the Immigration Carriers Liability Act (ICLA). Under the heading 8, you can see what they should have done before denying. They didn't do it either.
Re: Wrongful Denial of Boarding by Easyjet to UK
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:51 pm
by Wanderer
jengis wrote:Wanderer wrote:Easyjet are surely within their rights to board/not to board who they like bearing in mind they are liable to be fined for landing passengers with incorrect papers.
"13.2.1 Travel Documents
You are responsible for obtaining and must possess and have available for presentation as required all travel documents (including Your Confirmation Document) and all entry and exit, health, medical and other documents required by any applicable laws, regulations, orders, demands or requirements of the countries to be flown from and into. Subject to any applicable passenger rights pursuant to any international or domestic laws or regulations to the contrary, We reserve the right to refuse carriage to any Passenger we reasonably believe has not complied with, or whose documents do not comply with, such applicable laws, regulations, orders, demands or requirements."
Difficult for both the airline staff and the airline passenger to know all the applicable laws, airline T&C's usually cover them in situations like these, leaves the passenger high and dry I'm afraid.
Dear wanderer, Please refer to the post by Vinny in the beginning and my reply to his post above.
" 'The Superior protection to passengers' rule can prevail over the Airlines rules"
Once I have checked in, it is the responsibility of Airlines to see me board the flight (At least they should be able to prove that they tried)
And I would request you to check the Immigration Carriers Liability Act (ICLA). Under the heading 8, you can see what they should have done before denying. They didn't do it either.
Yes I read it and I made a mess, I was wrong in what I said and have apologised, and I apologise again. I skip read sometimes and I'm guilty of that here.
Re: Wrongful Denial of Boarding by Easyjet to UK
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 7:02 pm
by Obie
There are some neo nazi still in Germany. You can take the nazi of some of the people , but you cannot take some of the people out of the nazi.
In UK we mostly have a form of covert beloved,where people will laugh and joke with you , but don't like you.
When the pollster call they will complain, and when in the office they will smile. But they will not tell you in the face that you are not liked.
In UK it is in school that there is a more overt form of beloved. Where teachers will give a lower predicted grades than what you will get in actual exams.
Generally I think UK is worst than some of the continental countries. This obsession about refugees, immigrant is a clear indication of the problems in the UK.
I agree with Wanderer that the form of beloved you faced in Germany may not be apparent in the UK.
In UK, the person may think it, but will not say it.