Immigrationboards.com

Hello

I am UK national.

I posted (very depressed) a few weeks ago realising that my Indian Husband on a 33 month visa, still needed to get another 33 month visa and yet another visa before he could permanently settle in the UK.

ie. it is a 5 year route to ILR in the UK.

We do NOT want to be in the UK. We basically wish to be in India but would like to secure his visa now, before the rules and regulations get even more tough.

QUESTION: Is there any other EEA country where we could settle for LESS than 4 years and secure his permanent right to remain? This could then be later used to live and work in the UK should we ever choose to.

MANY thanks in advance. This is proving to be a most stressful situation

Kripaa Handa

Permanent residency status in an EU country (and the length and process to get it varies between different countries), is not 'transferable' to the UK. He would then need an EEA Family Permit based on YOU exercising treaty rights in a EU country as a qualified person. He will then, again, be on a new 5 year route to permanent residence in the UK (assuming the UK does not leave the EU). This route is called Surinder Singh (getting tougher too).

Also, permanent residence or ILR, is likely lost if you do not reside in the country that granted the PR status.

We do NOT want to be in the UK. We basically wish to be in India but would like to secure his visa now, before the rules and regulations get even more tough.

Even if you/he lives in India while he has a valid UK spouse visa, he will still not qualify for ILR if he/you do not reside in the UK.

Thank you CR001 for your quick reply.

We are (both very) aware of our requirement to be in the UK on his current visa. It is the very reason we were hoping (apparently unrealistically) that there may be a country he could get permanent right to remain. Surely once he has permanent right to remain, or a passport, it is fairly straightforward for him to work here ? (we are not in a hurry to get rights in the UK).

Let me say it really simple

- can he get permanent right to remain in an eu country other than UK?
- can this be faster? more lenient (on time required to be present in the country) than the uk?

thanks

Kripaa

- can he get permanent right to remain in an eu country other than UK?

There will be a period of qualifying residence he needs to meet, mostly somewhere between 3 and 5 years depending on which EU country (most are 5 years I think) as they have different requirements. He will not get permanent residence upon arrival or within a short period of time, if this is what you are aiming for. PR in another EU country, won't confer PR in the UK.

- can this be faster? more lenient (on time required to be present in the country) than the uk?

It varies per country. Ireland for example (where most people go because there is no language barrier), it is 5 years residence as well.

Once he obtains PR in another EU country (if you choose to wait for the years to acquire PR), there are then additional requirements to obtain citizenship of the EU country and again, the requirements vary per country but they all require residence. But yes, if he managed to get through the requirements and PR and EU citizenship, he would/could move freely to the UK as an EU citizen and of course assuming the UK remains within the EU.

kripaa wrote:We do NOT want to be in the UK. We basically wish to be in India but would like to secure his visa now, before the rules and regulations get even more tough.

Remember that ILR and PR are lost if you live outside the UK for more than two years. And short visits don't count. You must be resident in the UK to retain ILR/PR status.

kripaa wrote:Is there any other EEA country where we could settle for LESS than 4 years and secure his permanent right to remain? This could then be later used to live and work in the UK should we ever choose to.

As CR001 has already advised, PR is not portable across national borders, even within the EU.

kripaa wrote: - can he get permanent right to remain in an eu country other than UK?
- can this be faster? more lenient (on time required to be present in the country) than the uk?

If you mean PR under EU Directive 2004/38/EC, the UK implements the same rules as all other countries in the EU with regards to that. So, if you plan to use EU law, the standard requirement for PR is five continuous years of the EEA citizen (you) exercising treaty rights with your husband residing in the same EU country.

If you mean a like-PR status, such as ILR, it seems that the UK, at five years, has one of the lowest requirements across the EU. Have a look at Page 7 of this academic study of naturalisation requirements across EEA countries. I would also suggest reading the rest of the document to get a better understanding of how different countries grant naturalisation (if that is the eventual aim).

It seems that the UK is also among the fastest countries in processing naturalisation applications. It can take upto two years in Spain and Italy (Page 22 of the same document).

So, to summarise, the UK is already among the fastest countries in the EU when it comes to both ILR/PR status and naturalisation. You will just have to learn patience.

Your husband may want to look at applying for an EU Blue Card. That is essentially a work visa issued under EU rules that is portable across all EU countries except the UK, Ireland and Denmark.

The years that he works in one EU country on a Blue Card can typically (but not always; different countries have different rules on this) be credited to a permanent residency application in another EU country. So, for instance, if he works anywhere in the EU on a Blue Card for five years, he would be eligible for Belgian permanent residency. That can be lost by staying out of the EU for more than 12 months. Mind you that Belgian citizenship requires five to ten years of residence within Belgium itself.

secret.simon wrote:Your husband may want to look at applying for an EU Blue Card. That is essentially a work visa issued under EU rules that is portable across all EU countries except the UK, Ireland and Denmark.

The years that he works in one EU country on a Blue Card can typically (but not always; different countries have different rules on this) be credited to a permanent residency application in another EU country. So, for instance, if he works anywhere in the EU on a Blue Card for five years, he would be eligible for Belgian permanent residency. That can be lost by staying out of the EU for more than 12 months. Mind you that Belgian citizenship requires five to ten years of residence within Belgium itself.

@secret.simon, am sorry to bother you but i think maybe you can help. How long do you think HO takes to process PR application ? Me and my eea husband applied together on the same form and he is the main applicant and am the family member on the same form. Have done all the necessary things like biometric and received the coa with right to work and It is now 7weeks since we applied and nothing from HO . Do you have any idea why it is taking them so long because we need to travel for xmas but HO got all our IDs with them?

In the absence of secret.simon, I believe the delay may well be due to the high number of PR applications following the recent requirement for PR certificates/cards to be submitted when applying for British citizenship.

Casa wrote:In the absence of secret.simon, I believe the delay may well be due to the high number of PR applications following the recent requirement for PR certificates/cards to be submitted when applying for British citizenship.

@Casa, thank you for your response. I noticed that most eea national received their pr within 4-6weeks of their applications but our own now is 7weeks already. is it because i am non eea included in the application? Sorry for disturbing you

It could be due to being a more complicated application discussed in your thread:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... l#p1273821

kripaa wrote:...

We do NOT want to be in the UK. We basically wish to be in India but would like to secure his visa now, before the rules and regulations get even more tough.

...

It may be that all the stress & depression is essentially self-inflicted.
A realignment of thinking may be required here...

After all, citizenship (of anywhere) is not just another visa.
It is a privilege not a right. And it involves responsibilities as well as conferring rights.

Citizenship is, to coin a phrase, something along the lines of a relationship akin to marriage.
Like marriage it is (more often than not) prudent not to rush in too quickly (or blindly).

And why would anyone expect a sovereign state (any country) to grant citizenship to someone who hadn't demonstrated a certain degree of commitment to & integration with said nation state?

If all that is required of this country is to be able to work then the appropriate route to follow is clearly a succession of work-related visas;
- that is what they are for.

As other respected members have explained very eloquently above there is no quick fix.
And nothing short of citizenship carries any guarantees in this ever-changing world.
Only a British passport is going to be 'gilt-edged' and 'safe as bank of England'.

If your husband genuinely has such ambitions for the privilege of citizenship then there is no reason why he should not achieve that state - in time.
If not then he will be welcome, as a wealth creator &/or tax payer, under the work route.

By readjusting your thinking on this you may find the stress & depression its causing you simply melts away and you can focus on other matters.

noajthan wrote:

kripaa wrote:...

We do NOT want to be in the UK. We basically wish to be in India but would like to secure his visa now, before the rules and regulations get even more tough.

...

It may be that all the stress & depression is essentially self-inflicted.
A realignment of thinking may be required here...

After all, citizenship (of anywhere) is not just another visa.
It is a privilege not a right. And it involves responsibilities as well as conferring rights.

Citizenship is, to coin a phrase, something along the lines of a relationship akin to marriage.
Like marriage it is (more often than not) prudent not to rush in too quickly (or blindly).

And why would anyone expect a sovereign state (any country) to grant citizenship to someone who hadn't demonstrated a certain degree of commitment to & integration with said nation state?

If all that is required of this country is to be able to work then the appropriate route to follow is clearly a succession of work-related visas;
- that is what they are for.

As other respected members have explained very eloquently above there is no quick fix.
And nothing short of citizenship carries any guarantees in this ever-changing world.
Only a British passport is going to be 'gilt-edged' and 'safe as bank of England'.

If your husband genuinely has such ambitions for the privilege of citizenship then there is no reason why he should not achieve that state - in time.
If not then he will be welcome, as a wealth creator &/or tax payer, under the work route.

By readjusting your thinking on this you may find the stress & depression its causing you simply melts away and you can focus on other matters.

+1 - Well said Noajthan

Thank you for your many replies. I appreciate it all, including the gentle reminders that the depression may be self inflicted and that there could/should be some sense of gratitude/responsibility for a state offering citizenship/rights to live and work.

I suppose I see life slightly differently.

Overall, I do not agree to the premise that nations exist.
I do not have sympathy for the actors in the history of barbarism and feudalism that has finally reached the point of nation states.
I do not agree to paying tax which is used to harm other human beings.

I am simply a human being. No more, no less. And it is my work to be as loving tolerant and accepting of all and everything. I have not a single cell in me that wishes to dominate others.

This is my problem. The stench of domination and violence which is still hanging over from British Imperialism disturbs my remaining on this Island. My husband feels similarly and for that reason we probably will not bother pursue his visa.

I know I will be inundated with misunderstanding after writing this. I am White UK born and bred.

I know enough about politics and economics to sense very well what kind of control is going to emerge in the next 50 years.. the visa restrictions on people's movements are indicative of a general trend which is not pretty.

Your time might be coming. The 19th and 20th centuries have been the centuries when empires have broken apart (and I am thinking of the empires that most people do not think of, such as the Austro-Hungarian and the Russian, which were relatively ethnically homogenous) in the wake of nationalist fervour across the world, starting in 1848.

Now the pendulum is swinging back, towards larger unions (can't call them countries yet), such as the EU. Similar unions are being attempted in South America (Mercusor) and Africa (the AU).

But the pendulum is still swinging and remember that it will eventually swing back to smaller states yet again.

kripaa wrote:Overall, I do not agree to the premise that nations exist.

Whether or not you agree to the premise, they exist in facts on the ground. And they exert some extent of control over our lives. Since there has been more than one person on Earth, since Adam and Eve, (who incidentally can't have been married in the eyes of the UKV&I, but who at least had a durable relationship-they had no one else to commit adultery with) there has been a social structure, with rules of entering and exiting such societies.

I believe that even you recognise this reality on the ground in violation of your own premise, given that you are exploring options to get your husband a visa or a passport in an EEA country, thus admitting that you recognise the existence of countries, of the EEA and of restrictions of entering a country, evidenced by a visa.

kripaa wrote:I know enough about politics and economics to sense very well what kind of control is going to emerge in the next 50 years

I admire your knowledge. In my own estimation, I think I know enough about politics and economics, but I can't predict one year into the future, let alone 50.

kripaa wrote:The stench of domination and violence which is still hanging over from British Imperialism disturbs my remaining on this Island.

You are always welcome to renounce your British citizenship and move to that haven of peace and quiet, the Indian subcontinent. As noajthan has put it elegantly, citizenship has some characteristics of a marriage. If you feel unhappy in the relationship, break up on courteous terms and start a new life with a new partner (or country in this case).
PS: As you mentioned that you are married, I presume you do agree to the premise of partners.

Secret Simon....

There are clearly systems in place (products of human mind) in which one would not be able to function if one did not acknowledge the use of nation states,.. for example, I have been travelling the world for twenty years on my UK passport. It does not mean that I consider the premises upon which nation states are based to be remotely civil, even humane. It's all based upon "I own this land, I will kill you if you dont do as I wish"... (essence of power and domination) I know people who refuse to contribute to the system at all (which you say is reality on ground, well only real if we all feed it).. no taxes, no birth certificate, no bank account etc....

I appreciate their stance. I have chosen to have a passport and participate in the system to some extent primarily because I wish to be in India.
I have not renounced and may not renounce my UK passport not because I have a single allegiance with anything British, but for purely pragmatic reasons. I have little practical things here.. a hang over from being born here. (family etc)

I suspect that there is background movement where the world will be under larger conglomerates. Of economic base, not political. As our visa system is now largely based upon economics, not legal rights. I'm not predicting anything about the next 50 years, its inherent in what is happening now. I dont wish to preach, it hurts my head but I'll put a little link here about the insanity of war, and the inherent direction it is taking us in: http://www.collective-evolution.com/201 ... f-society/


As for marriage. My husband and I are best friends. We married, you got it, for practical purposes. Essentially so I could be in India. If there were no legal requirement, I would not involve a court or a religious institution in matters of my interior heart.... I don't 'believe' in things.. I live... I dont 'believe' in partners, I have found that love, in whatever form it comes, is intrinsically expansive, not contractive... that feels nice, that's it! Whether its a husband, boyfriend, mother, little puppy and so on and so forth.

Secret Simon thank you for taking the time to reply